I always felt the same way. A while back, though, I saw an interview with (I think) Katie Couric and she talked about her brother moving back home after college. Her parents did charge him rent, in order to make him more responsible and get him in the habit of having to pay to live once he was out on his own. But what they did was to take the rent he paid and put it in a separate bank account. When he finally got a good paying job and moved out on his own, they gave him the rent money he had paid to put as a down payment on a home/condo/whatever. I like that idea.</p>
<p>With 2 in college, at our house we set a budget equal to tuition & room and board at top state university. If they decided to go elsewhere (they both did), all the rest of the cost plus travel and incidentals are on them. They personally manage all the decisions on how to pay the difference; $10-$18,000 a year on their own. This type of structure certainly helps them learn money management and leads them to work quite a bit and they have done a great job minimizing their loans. Have 2 in high school and for summer, they have 20 hrs athletic EC’s and work 24-30 hours a week.</p>
<p>Certainly could not understand letting kids move back into the house after undergraduate without them paying rent, utilities etc. All these kids need to be independent eventually. On College Confidential boards in general, amazed how many parents seem OK with their kids not working and focusing on EC’s and test prep. Besides jobs helping kids learn about money, most hiring managers I know do note how much work experience even the best new college graduate has and raise their eyebrows at kids who never worked in high school and took a summer or two off during college.</p>
<p>We basically pay whatever merit or other awards don’t cover to equal the cost of tuition & fees as well as housing and up the the least expensive meal plan. We also have them on our medical plan. The rest is up to them as to how to cover it. Our S’s merit award covered > 1/2 tuition, so that was helpful to us. D had no merit or other award, so we’re paying more out of pocket.</p>
<p>S got a very generous gift from his aunt, so he didn’t need or ask us for any spending $$$ or even food after sophomore year. In fact, he stopped asking us for housing as well at some point during college. This has worked OK for us.</p>
<p>We have not figured out how much we can afford to help with their grad school. S’s employer has a program which will help pay for his grad school, so he may investigate that further.</p>
<p>We’re in the camp that our homes are open to our kids as long as they want/need it and we have no plans to charge rent as neither of our folks did. S did live with us from Aug to April, while he was awaiting a security clearance & helped a great deal around the house at his own initiative. He has moved across the country. We expect D will also end up living thousands of miles from us for a while, so it may be moot about them living with us (other than vacations) in the near term.</p>
<p>Sometimes the reason they are living back home with you is because they have no job and no income. That has been the case with my kids. The way I look at it, until they are done with college I don’t charge, and I don’t charge when they don’t have it to pay. Can’t squeeze water out of a stone. </p>
<p>Some kids simply have no time for jobs in high school with the course load and ECs. Some of mine went to high school more than a half hour away, so there is the commute time as well. During his sport season, DS did not get home some nights until close to 7pm. Getting his schoolwork done, and maintaining his room was enough, along with other things that he had to do. No time for a job. The others had ECs all year long, and an outside job was not possible unless it was very flexible. Not easy to find anything here either. My kids worked hard to find their jobs.</p>
<p>It also might matter how tight the family budget is and how much of an added strain it is to have more home & eating, consuming electricity, etc. When the added cost is minimal & there is no strain in the family budget, it can allow the kiddos to catch their breath if they can have the luxury of time to find an appropriate job rather than take any job to help with expenses and can pay off more for everyone in the long term.</p>
<p>IF the family budget is very tight, I can see asking every person able to contribute in whatever way possible.</p>
<p>In our house, not so much a cost issue, but part of teaching kids to be independent. Working as a waiter, coach or tutor teaches a lot and has flexible hours. Paying for a good chunk of their own college from work and money they saved from working hard during high school has been very rewarding for the kids.</p>
<p>My parents paid for all undergrad expenses(2 degrees). The main problem with studying in the US as an international undergrad student, is that getting a job outside the University is not allowed. Which means you have to work inside the Uni and the pay is well…horrible. Because of this, my parents had to pay for all of my expenses. Now that I’m going on to graduate school they will also cover tuition, but I will have to get a job to cover the rest (Which is not problem at all tbh). If money is not an issue for your family, I honestly don’t see the problem of family funds financing your education. The issue becomes a whole lot more complicated when funds are scarce.</p>
<p>In our house, we were just happy when the kids were healthy enough to attend their HS & college, without having them juggle more than their medically challenged bodies could readily handle. We are grateful that we had sufficient resources that we could make this work for our family and hope the kids pay it forward. My kids both got jobs during college because they wanted to & both were hired in their majors. Unfortunately, D lost her job when funds got tight & they had to stick with only hiring work study kids. About the same time, her classes got a lot more demanding in terms of time commitments, so perhaps it was for the best anyway.</p>
<p>My older daughter had a work study job for the first three years of college and worked during the summer; her senior year was student teaching and the school didn’t allow ed. majors to have work study while student teaching.</p>
<p>My younger daughter had campus jobs her first three years, and last year was also an RA. This year (senior year but also the first year of the professional phase of the Physician Assistant program) started already in May, and runs though Oct. 2013 without a break. She has classes from 8 a.m. til 8 p.m. and the amount of information that they need to learn and memorize is staggering. There’s no way that she can work during this phase.</p>
<p>Our oldest of four is an incoming frosh at a NE LAC. He will receive some needs-based grant money, but the lion’s share of his tuition, room & board will be paid via funds we have tucked away through 529’s over the years. </p>
<p>We have asked him to take out a $3,500 loan this year, and will repay it for him, provided he achieves and maintains Dean’s List status. He also has a FT paying job this summer, and he understands he is expected to pay for books and spending money this academic year.</p>
<p>We will continue to support him with health, dental and automobile insurance, a roof over his head, and a means of transportation when home, through his undergraduate career. We will encourage him to pursue post-graduate studies, however, we expect and hope that he or a future employer will help to fund that part of his education.</p>
<p>My rising college junior will have her first real job in the fall when she goes back to college. I would have liked for her to work this summer, but two jobs that were offered (as early as February) fell through. Anyway, my point is that for some kids, a job during high school does not make sense. DD had a 12-hour day before homework with her commute to school and sports afterward. She managed to maintian high grades and that earned her a nice scholarship, which is more than any part-time job would have paid. I like to think that the activities and course load gave her some time management skills. </p>
<p>So, while I started working early in high school and scrambled to make money as a youngster, times have changed. I don’t mind that the hard-working academic did not have a job. Now, for child #2, he will be working some this summer before his senior year in high school.</p>
<p>hbsurfer, you were amazed with the fact that many CC parents were OK with their kids not working at jobs in HS and instead focusing on EC’s and test prep and said that hiring managers would raise an eyebrow at a kid who didn’t work in HS and some college summers. </p>
<p>I think that there are different paths to careers and different kinds of jobs. I suspect that for some entry-level jobs, you are right. For others, I wonder. Once you are past the entry-level job, what you did in HS or likely college summers isn’t going to matter.</p>
<p>The real question is how do different choices affect the probability of getting hired by the employer? Choices could include summer jobs in HS, college, jobs during the academic year, eliteness of college, summer jobs that were career related v. summer jobs that were not, etc. The consequences of not having a job may also lead to choices: Someone who doesn’t have an academic year job may choose to kick the spare time, when needed, into getting a higher GPA. Some kids who have a relaxing summer may also have more energy for school – others may not get more energy. </p>
<p>To take one extreme, does a top management consulting firm like McKinsey pay attention when hiring consultants to whether or not they had jobs in HS or after the college freshman year? I think they would be concerned about where you went to business school and the job you had before business school. And, what about the job before business school? In the current job market, I suspect you get a job that would impress McKinsey from a combination of where you go to school, references and introductions. Will a lack of HS or even college freshman summer jobs matter? How will that compare to having gone to an elite college? (need not be a tradeoff but could be). I suspect that really depends on the prospective employer. Again, I suspect that McKinsey would pay more attention to elite college than summer job freshman year. They are looking at the school admission – and grades and probably major – as evidence that the applicant has enough wattage and work ethic to do the work at the consulting firm. </p>
<p>But, I’m sure you are right that there are employers for whom the implied work ethic of a summer job will matter more than where the kid went to college. In contrast to McKinsey, let’s imagine a medium-sized accounting firm that is much less concerned about the eliteness of the hire. They might be much more concerned about what you studied in college and what prior work experience you’ve had. It might matter more if the kid’s academic record was more mixed. </p>
<p>Just to say, there are both different paths and different ways to get on any particular path. What increases the probability most for one child is different than what increases it most for another.</p>
<p>Shawbridge, very good points. I do have to say I have experience with the McKinsey type hiring practices and if looking at two impressive candidates from impressive schools, in many cases we would choose the one with the lower GPA and more consistent and extensive work history. And by work history, I do not mean field related internships. We look at has the person experienced a non academic working environment. The person who has gotten into a good school, done well, and worked every summer since they were 16 at the same McDonalds and moved into a night shift management position there would rank at the top of the list. Over 35 years I have seen a very high wash out rate of Ivy League types who have strong grades and internships but cannot transition into the business working world. Some of these wash outs are people with poor life skills. Recently, some are kids who have been “helicoptered” through college graduation and just do not get non academic working. Perhaps this is not as big a issue in other fields, but in management consulting, finance and accounting these considerations are important.</p>
<p>We pay all expenses i.e. Tuition, Room, food and travel. We also pay for laptop, cell phones (monthly bills), all medical insurances and expenses. The total yearly college expenses touches $60K.
We let DD keep her summer earnings into her saving account for her discretionary expenses. We were never in favor of working during summer in high school till the summer after Junior year when she did a paid internship. But that was a very competitive internship and count as a very strong extra-curricular activity.
Since then she did paid internship all summers. We’ve always paid her summer living expenses as she stayed with us and asked her to save the earnings for regular college year. Since this time she is being paid really well during the summer ~19K, and she is not living at home, she is handling her summer expenses on her own. We still told her to put majority of her earnings in to the saving account so that she will have some money when she graduates while we still be funding her Tuition, Room, food and travel for regular year as before.</p>
<p>Hbsurfer- what would you say of someone who is close being a pre-professional ballet dancer, trains for 15+ hours a week, in the summer goes to ballet summer intensive with professional ballet company, and still able to maintain high GPA. Someone like that has great work ethic, able to take criticism well, a self starter, good at time management…Those are all the traits you look for in an employee. </p>
<p>D1’s major EC in high school was ballet. Instead of working at a minimum wage job she tutored few hours a week during school year for 50/hr, and in the summer she found work which she could do from home for 15/hr (it gave her the flexibility she needed with ballet). </p>
<p>There are a lot of students who are involved with ECs that are very time
consuming, what they learned from those ECs are just as valuable as working at McDonald. For my daughter, she figured it out early that it pays to have an education, she has to work fewer hours as a tutor than
as cashier at a retail store to make same amount of money.</p>
<p>I did not allow D to work while in HS. Her job was to do the very best she could with a rigorous course schedule, plus ECs in choir, drama, community service plus private voice, multiple dance lessons, piano, acting classes and community theatre productions. In the summer she had a major musical production each year. We figured the scholarships she could receive would far outweigh the minimum wage jobs (and we were right). She worked part-time after senior year to get some spending money for college. Her dad and I paid and/or took loans (plus scholarships and her Stafford loans) for pretty much everything. She did not do work study her first year as her major was very time consuming, 60+ hours per week with studio/classes/outside requirements. This summer, however, she is working two jobs and will cover all her personal expenses, air fare, and books…and she will do work study as well.</p>
<p>It is not an either/or for employers. I have been hiring and recruiting for over 25 years for both industrial companies and for “elite” type employers, and there is no unwritten code which says flipping burgers is bad and athletic achievement is good.</p>
<p>Employers look for evidence of initiative, being able to work through problems, not giving up at the first obstacle, ability to forge consensus, being both a good leader and a good follower, etc. Obviously some roles require more of some things and less of others.</p>
<p>If a new grad is able to demonstrate what my company is looking for via internships or volunteer work or EC’s that’s great. If it’s through employment- that’s great too. But as most companies move towards behavioral interviewing (i.e. what you’ve done in the past is the best predictor of what you will do in the future) it becomes increasingly important to be able to talk about what you’ve done. In the old days, softball questions like “who do you admire” or “tell me about where you’re going to be in 5 years” were used to flesh out soft skills. The evidence indicates that these are weak interviewing techniques-- and you get a better hire out of fact based questions.</p>
<p>So it’s important to have “done stuff” outside of the library, classroom and lab. And not every kid will be qualified for every job- that’s just common sense. If a kid was a camp counselor, he/she will be able to talk about organizing schedules and managing conflict. If a kid ran a refreshment concession at an amusement park, he/she can talk about dealing with the public, ordering and managing an inventory, cash control. And a kid who was a champion athlete will talk about getting up at 4 am even when it’s cold to hit the pool or the gym or to run 5 miles before school. Not every kid will have every experience and it’s unrealistic to think that your own child’s experiences will all be fungible!</p>
<p>So it’s inaccurate to say “my kids EC’s are just as valuable as your kids work experience”. It IS accurate to say that ECs, work, internships, volunteer commitments will all help your kid when it’s time to get a full time job. And some employers (hiring managers) will feel more comfortable with certain profiles than others and there is for sure a high degree of self-selection and weeding out that goes on during the hiring process.</p>
<p>If your kid is trying to get hired by a company which loves to recruit former MO’s (military officers)-- and has a leadership program which is populated by former Marines or Navy Nukes… all the burger flipping and ballet dancing and musical theater credits in the world is probably not going to make a dent.</p>
<p>It would be very short sighted of any hiring manager to only recruit people witH certain profile because of his/her own bias. When it comes to soft skills, you look for someone who can demonstrate those desirable traits, whether it’s from flipping burgers or dancing ballet.</p>
<p>Why is it inaccurate to say an EC is just as valuable as a work experience(whether it’s my kid or someone else’s kid)?</p>
<p>Blossom, I’d go even further and suggest that hiring at the level I see is idiosyncratic – it depends on who you are talking to and what they value. I think all will want to believe that the kid in front of them has both the mental capability, the work ethic and the experience base to perform well on the job. Some care more about the kids’ potential than others. But, former athletes tend to give greater weight to athletic experience, Harvard summas tend to look fondly on Harvard summas, other folks tend to value the McDonalds jobs, etc. as predictors of successful performance.</p>
<p>Interesting to know about the trend to fact-based questions. I often find it hard to get anything real out of them, but I’m probably doing it wrong. It’s a little hard to tell what they actually did versus what others did. I’ve always gotten nothing out of the softball questions – people just generally tell you what they think you want to hear. I’ve moved to offering up situations and asking how they would handle them. But, while I’ve been hiring for years, I have no belief in my own competence and no training or data behind me.</p>
<p>oldfort, I think it is that the value of an activity or job will be higher with some firms and some specific interviewers and lower for others. They have to sort through hundreds of resumes and believe that the activity or experience is a good predictor of success in their organization (this may or may not be backed up by data). Perot Systems and EDS before them placed a great weight on folks with military experience (Navy, I think). Ballet experience wouldn’t count for much there, I’d guess. I helped people start a couple of hedge funds that had investments from large hedge funds. One was started by a Harvard grad who was a basketball player. All of the outward facing hires I dealt with were former Harvard basketball players (one may have just been a Harvard grad, not sure). McDonalds jobs probably wouldn’t have helped there. All other things equal, at that firm, prior work experience at a hedge fund or i-bank would undoubtedly have helped, but as I was suggesting, those kinds of jobs probably are obtained through referrals and high quality references. Not sure they go through what people are describing as a hiring manager.</p>