What do you think about this claim by Prof. Leiter that Penn cooks the numbers

<p>The latest US News Fraud on the Public is Here!
The U.S. News law school rankings aren’t very good, but they look like rocket science by comparison to their rankings of colleges. Here’s the top 50 according to US News. We get off to a plausible enough start with the top three:</p>

<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>Princeton University </li>
<li>Yale University </li>
</ol>

<p>and then, who is #4 according to US News, better than MIT, Stanford, Columbia, Michigan, and Berkeley?</p>

<li>University of Pennsylvania </li>
</ol>

<p>And now we’re on the other side of the looking glass. Penn is a very good research university, to be sure, one of the top 15 or so in the nation, on a par, more or less, with UCLA, Wisconsin, Texas, Cornell, etc. But how did it get ranked 4th for undergraduate education? It certainly has a better student-faculty ratio than state research universities like Wisconsin and Texas, but that’s not why it’s ranked 4th. It’s ranked 4th because they cook the numbers, plain and simple (as a former Penn Dean said to me a few years back, “I’d hate to be around if they ever audited the books”). That started with former Penn President Judith Rodin; whether Amy Gutmann will continue that “tradition” remains to be seen. For a variety of reasons having to do with the ranking criteria, the undergraduate rankings are even more subject to manipulation through creative accounting and outright fraud than the law school rankings.</p>

<p>Here now the rest of the top 50 according to US News: . . . .</p>

<p>Oh OK. Well, I guess that proves everything! I'd like more proof. As to money and its importance in college admissions (this was written by a friend in response to someone else. He goes to Northwestern. and keep in mind, it is percentage of students who donate, not how much):
__
Money is everything for a university. It determines how much access to materials you have (endowments fund libraries; money is required to post readings online and to secure other contracts for teaching media), it determines how 'wired' your campus is to take advantage of state of the art technology for many fields, it determines how big your buildings are, how famous your professors are, and how significant and groundbreaking your professors' research is. Money even gose into those specific things which you think that USNews rankings ignore: colleges pay big dollars to hire consultants and testing centres in order to best evaluate proper curriculae for students. In the end, money produces better education which in turn produces more money: universty funding shows signs of economies of scale.</p>

<p>Furthermore, to claim that "of course the richest snobs of the most pretiguous schools are mos tlikely to donate" is bordering on assinine. People get paid, by and large, in accordance to hard they work and in accordance to how people place cash values on their performance. As such, the best schools will have the richest alumni because of their reputation of hardwork, not solely because of some blanket, patently untrue, rapore with future employers. Also, alumni donate because they feel that the school will use the money to enrich the community, not just to feel - as you insinuated- elite. Rich people want to know that their money is going towards something to preserve their reputation and would be very unlikely to donate to a failing, unacademic, nonprogressive institution.</p>

<p>As much as people lambaste USNews survey, it is pretty much right on the money. These factors may not DIRECTLy correlate with a university's excellence, however they are excellent indicators of academic performance and student demand for these educations. That's the point of these surveys and that's why students use them very closely to gauge market demand, employer demand, and student demand, however add their own personal preferences into the mix. All else being equal, you'er better off goin to Yale than Duke, better off going to Duke than Northwestern, better off going to Northwestern than UCLA, better off going to UCLA than UNLV, and so on.</p>

<hr>

<p>Joel: what I'm saying is that vast sums of wealth go towards analysing other curriculae and updating your own. With more money you have better facilities, better materials, better professors, etc. Yes, a poor school might have a superior curriculum for one year before other schools catchon and hire consultants to assist them in modifying their own curriculum - but after that year is over, that little school has lost its comparative advantage to Ben Franklin. I wasn't knocking your interpretation of the global schools, only your assertion that they are unfairly placed below domestic schools. I believe that they are FAIRLY placed below due to these cost considerations and that although a portion of those international places are good schools, but, as I noted earlier, are not placed in the top 25 because things like <em>ACCEPTANCE % and ENTRANCE NUMBERS (due to population and structural differences)</em> are incompatible, NOT things like endowment. We have almost no barriers to capital flows now Joel; to claim that international institutions wouldn't command salaries in accordance to their rapore is - for the most part - incorrect.</p>

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<p>Whoa pandy. That's like a friggin' essay. NVM. I actually started reading it, and realized that you didn't write all of it. HAHA.</p>

<p>But, in response to the original post, can we cut the crap about rankings already? I am seriously sick of kids trying to "compare" schools. It's in the eye of the beholder, ergh.</p>

<p>I was just surprised that a prof. at U of Texas making such a strong claim against Penn and its former President.</p>

<p>they're jealous. JK. It doesn't matter, really. I mean, didn't the former Pton or Harvard pres. made this statement about how the Ivies are full of rich white kids and that they had this huge controversy about the previous Harvard president, how he was a complete moron who screwed over much of Harvard's undergrad departments and told a kid "At Harvard, we only focus on the best" or something when the kid went in and asked him why he couldn't get in touch w. his professors....</p>

<p>I realize that the above paragraph lacks commas and proper punctuation. It's late. I don't care. My point is, every school has its own controversy, and as a '09 Quaker, I don't give a f****.</p>

<p>my mom said if i went to law school she wouldnt talk to me when I was an L1
sign me up! (not cause i dont want to talk to my mom)</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but I think it's completely ludicrous to rank Penn above MIT, Caltech, Columbia, Stanford, et al. It's just ridiculous.</p>

<p>I think you're looking at prestige rather than university attributes. Penn gets the shaft in prestige because of a certain public school. Attribute-wise, there isnt a great deal of difference between penn and the others who "just seem better".</p>

<p>Though, if you want a conspiracy theory,</p>

<p>Mortimer B. Zuckerman, a wharton graduate, owns U.S. News and World Report.</p>

<p>Umm, calidan, please tell me why you feel that way. It seems no one can defend that position! However, I'd bet your story would change if Penn's name was Franklin!</p>

<p>USNews rankings have a plus/minus 5 margin of error</p>

<p>I think it's because at the top 20-15 school level, schools are so close together that it doesn't make thaaaat much of a difference.</p>

<p>yeah..a 1pt difference wouldn't really make a difference in quality but a 1pt difference would make a difference in the rankings</p>

<p>i kind of have a problem with penn's unethical use of early decision. penn drops the acceptance rate and increases its matriculation yield purposely and artificially by accepting half of the freshman class ED--almost twice the number of most of the other ivies
meanwhile, yale, stanford and other top universities are working towards doing away with ED altogether because almost everyone agrees that it is a bad idea to make college more of a statistical game that it needs to be.</p>

<p>ED? I love ED. HAHA. No. Actually, I think it's very wise from the school's perspective, they want to lock in the kids who actually really want to go there, why not milk it for all it's worth? </p>

<p>Cough cough, Yale, Stanford and others (Harvard?) HAVE done away with ED, it's what they called EA buddy.</p>

<p>yeah..but that's why it sucks even more for those who've been deferred or rejected from Penn ED</p>

<p>
[quote]
but that's why it sucks even more for those who've been deferred or rejected from Penn ED

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And its worse yet for those Penn will reject in RD because they think accepting them will hurt their USNews ranking if they seem likely to go to another school.</p>

<p>interesting...bump</p>

<p>they're not locking in kids who really really want to go there. they are locking in kids who realize they have a ludicrously large statistical advantage if they apply early, so they compromise with themselves and take the safe route. that's not right.
everyone ought to apply wherever they want and have a level playing field to go where they want.</p>

<p>I don't see how cooking the books has any thing to do with education... I dont' think US News and World report ranks off of how much money a school brings in.</p>

<p>ok watch this guys. observe as I demolish this post before mine:</p>

<p>proof pls.</p>