What does it mean to "love your safety"?

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where the frats or off-campus housing tends to be and see how many beer bottles were out at garbage pickup!

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<p>That must where the students are responsible and throw them out rather than piling them in the corner or using them for sculptures. ;)</p>

<p>Seriously, if the school is large enough, one can definitely find their niche. In particular, many publics have very intellectual students (sometimes in honors programs) who either had financial concerns or preferred being close to home. Like tends to hang around with like: the partiers, the studiers, the punks, etc.</p>

<p>Hello.....Thursday is a great day for a visit....walk around campus that nite....be observant. Scout out the beer joints in close proximity to campus. Lots of kegs on front porches.....with students sitting around in the morning...well hello.</p>

<p>perhaps i'm lying to myself, but i just keep saying that i don't care where i go... as long as i don't go to cc...</p>

<p>It does make it hard to pick a safety if it is necessary to visit, hang around at night and check the garbage. Sure there are many ways to dig around and find out about the campus culture. I just want an easier way and fewer disappointments.</p>

<p>CC is one best way.....it is a hard process. Stocks and Colleges....they always look good on the IN.</p>

<p>hazmat, ur just saying that cuz you GOT IN to penn already!</p>

<p>I think of "love your safety" as meaning: take care of it, be good to it.</p>

<p>In other words, show an interest, visit, submit a top quality application, be responsive when they offer or need something, etc. </p>

<p>I think of it as "Be good to your safety because you never know, you may need your safety to be good to you."</p>

<p>Thanks so much for all the good ideas and stimulating dialogue. The one thing that strikes me is how unique the needs of individual students and families are. What works well for one individual may not work at all for others. A few of you may remember the initial dilemma that I posted on this site some months back. We are an Orthodox Jewish family and son had specific ideas of what he wanted in a school in terms of Hillel or Chabad, the availability of traditional services and kosher food at least for Passover. This is not a family directive that's coming top down but something that is important to him. (In fact at one point we suggested he slightly loosen his criteria, but he didn't want to.) </p>

<p>We spent literally hundreds of hours contacting Hillels and local synagogues, scrutinizing the Hillel site to find out what matched and what didn't. I don't think our family is unique in having certain clear cut priorities. There are many who have specific needs whether it's for a particular sport, a geographic region, support for a child with learning disabilities, a major that's offered in only certain places... The list could go on. We all have different priorities in life. So there is an invisible cord binding all the names on son's list: each and every one at least meets his "minimum" standards in regard to the presence of a Jewish community. Each one also has strong programs in the sciences. Beyond that, there is diversity. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, many of the smaller midwestern LAC's in rural areas and smaller towns that would be natural choices as safeties or safe matches invariably got winnowed off the list because of the need for Jewish resources. So he's had to "compromise" on things like size: some of the safety and safe match schools are larger than he would like. At the same time, there were schools that initially seemed like a match on paper but when he actually saw them he went running in the opposite direction. (that's a topic for another thread!) </p>

<p>The one thing he doesn't want to do is compromise on the level of intellectual ferment at the school. Again, each child is different. I have a daughter who will be looking for a match that is "comfortable" and socially interesting. My son craves an academic challenge. </p>

<p>** Xiggi, **I believe, hit the nail on the head when he ironically pointed to the fact that son's safety--the University of Texas at Austin -- is a school that many from out-of-state are struggling to get in. The same could also be said of U. Va. where son is considered in-state because he is a legacy. Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I do think son would be excited if he managed to get into Plan II, Dean's Scholars, or Echolls because he would feel he really put out the effort to do that. There is admittedly a certainly lure in doing the difficult or, in the case of the Ivies, the next to impossible! For some kids, it isn't just the ranking or the prestige: we value what challenges us because in trying to meet the challenge we put so much of our heart into the goal. </p>

<p>Son has visited and, where possible, done campus interviews for every one of his schools except the pie-in-the-sky variety. He has polished and repolished his essays, sent in a theater DVD, and chanted good luck spells over his computer. He knows a pack of information about each school. I think he's done his homework and come up with the best possibilities. Now, quite frankly, the rest is luck!</p>

<p>It is hard for even mature 17 and 18 yr olds not to have serious crushes on colleges no matter how much they try to stay Open or give lip service to staying open. I raised my sons to be very sincere, and one of my kids is completely unable to "suck up" and make nice if he doesn't really feel it, so he had a hard time with spreading the love around. I have made this analogy before but it is like it is now OK to date four girls at once and consider them each to be great. This just feels weird to 17 year olds who want to be "loyal and genuine." They need some coaching that "courting" three or four schools during class visits or overnights can't help but feel sort of fickle and insincere, but it is OK and necessary and will inform their essays and their April decisions later. Perhaps the Reach will let you in but the Match really wants you and shows it! Perhaps the Reach visit left you cold but the Match college prof gave you fifteen minutes of his time and welcomed you. Here is where being 50 helps. You can keep your child somewhat rational by encouraging them to give every Match school 100% of their attention and to visualize themselves living and working there. Class visits to Match schools, chats with fine Profs, gracious students, a glimpse of a sports outlet or party...all of these things later cushion the blows of the waitlists, deferrals and rejections at Reach schools and teaches your child that there are scores of fine colleges in our country. Here is a little thing I learned after we attended April Days where S was accepted: if you grew to love and respect your Match schools over say six months of thinking and sending stuff in (by the way, you will be still adding stuff to your files till mid-winter, and this is not really over when you file an application), it is actually possible to seriously consider declining a Reach. My S liked his colleges so much that admission to his Reach meant he had a lot to think over and hesitated a long time. Kids who did not get into the Crush school will rebound and this is also great experience to take with you for the next round of grad schools and job searches. Our family actually grieved some for the possible great lives left behind at schools where my S was admitted because he had come to appreciate each institution. Even if your apps are already filed, you can encourage more attachment to Matches as the winter passes by and I recommend that outlook. And gee whiz sounds like your Son has done a lot of identifying his own needs and has really studied the cultures of his schools. I am sure he will be happy in April and you will have some thinkin' to do about which to opt for.</p>

<p>Good point, Adad. Very good point. There have been some unhappy endings where folks took their safety "for granted." Some of the more selective safeties are <em>very</em> sensitive to being the fallback position for the Ivies/HYPSM. These schools take your attentiveness and "love" very seriously. They have needs, too, especially for a good yield so they are much more likely to accept the applicant who has indicated care in the selection of the school.</p>

<p>Faline -- very well said. </p>

<p>During last year, long after D's app was in, coach from one of the safeties in the midwest flew out to the west coast to see her play tennis-- twice. He surely knew his school was a safety. He still came out. You'd better believe my D started notching that place upwards in her mind. Then he proposed her for a merit scholarship. Merit award required interview. Afterwards, the interviewer sent a handwritten note. The school went up another few notches. Merit award came through over $10K per year. Who doesn't like that?</p>

<p>Every step of the way that school was warm, personal, classy and appealing, and D knew she'd be happy and valued there. It was the school that we were so sad to turn down. Maybe it started out as an "arranged marriage" but love did eventually grow. </p>

<p>When we called the coach to let him know, true to classy form, he was completely happy for her ED acceptance. I told him how much we appreciated the whole feel and tone of his school and he told us to make sure to pass that school's name on to other kids.</p>

<p>So, FYI: Beloit!</p>

<p>I had started a similar thread last year, questioning whether the "love thy safety" maxim was realistic. When my kids applied, we frankly did not strive for that attitude during the ap process, simply treating the safety like an insurance policy that you hope you'll never need (tho both my kids would have been happy to attend a couple of their match schools). However, one poster's response resonated strongly with me: a safety is like an arranged marriage: you might not experience the giddy "love at first sight" of your reaches, but you can grow to love it and form a wonderful relationship.</p>

<p>Thanks SBMom..my son is in a Reach school which is unexpected, and there are great positives and also difficulties going to class with kids who all had hugely high stats--curves are brutal and will always be brutal because the prof has to shake out the highly gifted from the bright in subjects for an A to mean much, but then again, anyone on your hall can serve as a TA and they do help each other. It is not like the kids at his Match schools were exactly slackers, far from it, but I am pretty sure he sometimes feels like Jude the Obscure among his current classmates. Frankly, the smaller LACs that really called, wrote and offered him "we want you" things might have provided better learning environments in some subjects. So it is a tradeoff, and Match schools (which I use also as Safeties in our circumstances) could have gotten him in great position for grad school applications and we never forget that.</p>

<p>Cami-- thanks for qualifying your original post. Just a thought-- there are a lot of schools that are off the beaten track for most observant kids where a motivated student could still have a satisfying Jewish experience. Franklin and Marshall is one example.... the Orthodox Rabbi in Lancaster is a real gem; highly interested in students, very accessible, great family, etc. I don't think F&M makes it onto too many observant students lists, but the local shul is a very easy walk for shabbes or even a weekday minyan, and the surrounding community is a very supportive one.</p>

<p>I don't know these rural communities as as well but I've heard the same thing about places like U. Vermont (the shul is very close to U Vermont's campus); Ithaca college (despite the remote location Cornell has a booming Hillel, a Chabad, and a Young Israel house). There are big schools like U. Mass and U. Conn which are working hard to attract highly identified Jewish students, and small urban schools like Drexel in Philadelphia which uses the Hillel facility of U Penn.</p>

<p>So-- agree with you that it's a challenge, but it would be a shame for your son to finish up his applications feeling so ambivalent about his "sure bet/likely" schools. I bet you could find one more which met his criteria on all counts but which would help you all sleep at night. Have you looked at Rutgers, U Maryland, or SUNY Binghamton? These are schools which yeshiva HS kids in the Northeast have at the top of their lists; strong science programs; somewhat "by the numbers" admissions (although you're out of state.) Take a look; if your reachier schools are places like JHU, Cornell and Penn he might get really excited about these.</p>

<p>Blossom, don't you think that your post number 54 will go a long a long to open the eyes of Cami's son ... about the value of his safeties? I am wondering why someone would travel great distances to attend more expensive schools that are not necessarily better. Unless there are good reasons NOT to attend schools such as UT-Austin or UVA, I would have a really hard time getting excited about U Vermont, U Maryland, SUNY, Drexel, or Rutgers. My comments are not meant to knock down the schools you suggested -I recognize the Hillel connection- as much as advancing my theory that the great state universities are a lot more attractive to in-state students than to out-of-state students.</p>

<p>My daughter has actually fallen in love with her "ultimate safety school" now that she's been accepted. :) </p>

<p>The school is somewhat different than the other schools on her list in terms of size but the campus culture is very similiar to the other schools. I think that is key when picking a potential safety --- is it radically different than your "dream school" in terms of feel?</p>

<p>Interestingly, because D. considered it "just a safety" she never really looked closely at the things that make it special and unique until after the acceptance came in. Once she did, she was shocked and pleasantly surprised to find out that it has much to recommend it that she hadn't been willing to see before. </p>

<p>Now, I don't know that she'll ultimately choose it if her top choice schools come through, but I suspect that it may come in pretty close in the running.</p>

<p>CAmi215, have you checked out Michigan?
<a href="http://housing.umich.edu/dining/passover_info.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://housing.umich.edu/dining/passover_info.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.umhillel.org/faq/index.html#students%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umhillel.org/faq/index.html#students&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.umhillel.org/religious/orthominyan/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umhillel.org/religious/orthominyan/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.umhillel.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umhillel.org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I guess I should be lucky in that my S really does love his safety. In fact, it's his number 2 choice and he bumped several other more selective schools off his list over the past few months. Someone else already mentioned visiting the safety first; we did do that, but not for a specific reason. It just worked out that way with timing.
I am a bit worried as I'm not certain about how much of a financial safety it would be, but other than that I feel great about his safety school. BTW, it's not a state U and not a party school.</p>

<p>I have to say that I have had a very frustrating time with my own daughter because she does not want to attend her safeties... and she pretty much has her heart set on schools that are either impossible reaches, or iffy match schools that don't promise to meet full financial need (and where her "match" status means that she wouldn't qualify for much in the way of merit aid). She will definitely apply to safeties -- in her case, she is ELC for the UC system so she knows she has a place at a UC campus .... but I don't look forward to the spring. </p>

<p>I don't know whether it is realistic to expect a kid to "love" the safety, but I do think that somewhere along the line the kid needs to understand and accept that he/she will very likely be attending that school in the fall -- especially if finances are an issue. I do give my daughter credit for trying - her initial college list had safety/matches near the top, but she just wasn't comfortable when she visited them. So she just ended up with a college strategy that depends largely on luck. </p>

<p>So I guess I am very much in the same situation as Cami. Even if d. gets into one of her reach schools, finances may dictate that she has to turn them down. I do think that my d. will do fine in the end at any school, but attitude also plays a big part as to how well a kid will adjust -- and you really don't want disappointment to be the prevailing emotion when you pack your kid off for their first year.</p>

<p>"So she just ended up with a college strategy that depends largely on luck."</p>

<p>In the end I felt that was our strategy also. It really felt that way during the long wait for the letters to come. My D wouldn't say a word for months until the acceptances came. My W was calm. She said everything would work out the way it should. My W was right. Everything turned out for the best. Everything but the finances and the final decision that the loans were worth it because none of the safeties were loveable.</p>