Your son is a rising senior, will be 18 in a matter of months, and this is his future. Why is he not involved in these investigations?
" Why offer alternatives if colleges don’t accept them?" - Because lots of families (in the real world, outside this CC site) have students that don’t go to college.
Your son probably has had plenty of math to be a a successful theater tech (or very many other things). But if the field require college degree, then he’ll need to conquer the school math requirements (either by classwork or LD exemption). . It’s great that you are doing all this research and won’t have surprises at fall application time.
Happymom -
I checked into IATSE. There are three ways to join - first, earn 35K in each of three years in relevant and acceptable work, second, helping to unionize a non-union employer and third, passing a test for an apprenticeship. When they open the opportunity, they take the top 40 scorers. I will have my son call and find out when the next class is being tested for and whether there are any study materials. I have absolutely no idea whether or not he has enough knowledge or experience at this point to pass the test or if a person can take the test in more than one cycle. He is pretty good at, but still learning, light and sound boards, has stage managed twice and has done a little bit of work with props. He likes to build and his dad worked as a carpenter to put himself through law school so that talent is there. To satisfy the art/music requirement, he took mechanical drawing/CAD, which I see is a course taught in most of the programs we’ve looked at. He’s also taken classes in 3D printing and radio broadcasting.
I am late to this game because he only decided this past semester to do theater tech in college. Prior to that, he was going to major in psych. Once I realized that the alg 2 issue might foreclose four year schools for psych, we talked about doing community college or CUNY for gen eds since you don’t need that class for admission or to transfer. For theater tech, though, the 4 year programs looked better and I didn’t really consider that the lack of alg 2 would be an impediment to earning that type of degree. My initial post reflected my shock and anger at myself over that fact. I feel like I failed my son by not anticipating that he could need this course.
There is a theater program at our local cc and my son actually has a friend in it. This friend enjoys the program but isn’t sure that he wants to pursue tech as a career. I have been inspired to check into transfer and acceptance rates from that program into programs like Purchase’s. I will post what I learn.
Mathy - My son is involved in his college search and his future. We talk a great deal about it and strategize. However, he’s not the type of kid who would join a site like this one.
My husband was a freelance theater technician in NYC. I asked him about this. Here are some questions:
- What makes your son think he wants to be a theater technician?
- What skills does your son already have in the theater tech field?
- Theater tech involves a LOT of different areas. Does your son want to do lights, sound, sets, stage management, costumes? What exactly does he think he wants to do...and how much experience does he have doing these things?
- Would your son have any opportunities to volunteer alongside of a more experienced theater technician?
And FWIW…there are theater tech things at HSs that the students usually are not permitted to do (for safety and liability reasons…things like the final connections to the electrical for lights and sound).
Your son needs to be sure HIS tech theater experiences NOW are the best they can be. Has he had any leadership rolls (master electrician, stage manager, set or lighting designer)?
I do think Algebra2 could be considered one of several higher level math classes counting for the 4-year requirement, including Statistics and Discrete Math. I really do believe there’s too much focus on algebra/trig in our curriculum and not enough stats, math for life, logic, discrete math that count as College prep.
Now, it’s highly unlikely that a BFA will care about Algebra2, but Admissions at Suny Purchase may. A portfolio is typically the most important part of BFA admissions.
Look into a CUNY too, perhaps?
Have you really run the NPC on Muhlenberg?
What’s your efc and what can you afford?
from CUNY
Thumper1 -
I asked my son the very pertinent questions your husband outlined. His answer was “It’s cool, it’s fun, I get to do interesting things and meet great people.” When I pressed him further, he said that he enjoys working to see a show start from nothing but a dream and turn into a production that brings participants and viewers happiness. He has done both light board and sound board, stage managed and assistant stage managed. He has recruited more new members to the stage crew in his HS than anyone else in recent history. He has done builds and breakdowns. The construction work is his favorite. He doesn’t have any interest in costume design and very little in props work, but he has done the latter when needed and would do it again if necessary. If the pillow he made in home ec class is any example, the actors would probably be better off naked than wearing anything he sewed (a chip off the old block, sadly). I have been told by the directors and drama club teachers he has worked with that he has a good sense of how things are done and how to trouble shoot and solve problems. He has taken 3 years of auto mechanics and that teacher, who is also a lawyer, says the same thing about him. They think that he has a great deal of potential. He is generally of a calm nature, or as calm as a 17 year old boy can be, and is looked up to by his peers. He is a leader; other kids come to him with issues they need guidance in. In terms of working with power tools, he obviously can’t do that at school yet, but he has used many of them at home with my husband, who has a nicely equipped shop for a non-professional, and he is well-trained in their safe use.
Today, he and my adult daughter went to visit SUNY Purchase. He liked it and plans to begin his SUNY app when it opens on Monday. As he explained it to me, for the BFA, the school doesn’t really care about your academics, as long as you have a HS diploma; it is based on the portfolio, audition, etc. For the BA, there is no portfolio requirement, but your HS course is more important. He didn’t learn whether you can apply to both or if you can be rejected for the BFA but offered admission to the BA or vice versa. My daughter, who is a performer but who did not study performing arts in school other than voice, felt that the school would be an excellent fit for him.
In terms of my initial question, I did a little more research and found this on line.
Students We Are Seeking
The Office of Admissions at Purchase College seeks to enroll highly motivated, hard-working and academically strong students with a consistent record of achievement in a challenging high school curriculum.
All candidates are encouraged to pursue a rigorous college prep curriculum throughout their entire high school career, enhancing their college preparation through honors and Advanced Placement coursework.
The Office of Admissions maintains a holistic review process with a focus on the quality of your academic program, your cumulative academic average, your test scores and your supplemental application.
Typical Grades and Test Scores
Generally, successful freshman applicants have earned the following:
GPA: 3.0/85
SAT: 1100 combined Critical Reading and Math; Minimum Critical Reading score of 450
ACT: 24 Composite
(My son has a 3.3 and a 24 so if the alg 2 was not an issue, he would have the numbers they are looking for).
This is what I found that was interesting and potentially helpful, not just to my son but to the children of other posters who struggle with math or English or history -
Don’t quite fit the description?
Students that do not meet these exact requirements but demonstrate a compelling academic history or, in the case of our professional training programs in the visual and performing arts, exceptional artistic talent may still be considered for admission. For the additional admission requirements for students applying to programs in the visual and performing arts, choose your program below.
I wonder if my son’s LD and struggles with math would constitute “a compelling academic history.” If his LD does meet this category, then it doesn’t seem that I would be trying to circumvent an absolute requirement as much as traveling an alternative path.
Thanks to those who mentioned CUNY. Both my husband and I attended CUNY schools. I graduated from one and he transferred to a SUNY. He is going to look at the Brooklyn College theater program. I was surprised to learn that it has dorms! When I was in college, we referred to CUNY as Commuter University of NY. As for the standards, he is fine on the reading and writing but only has a 19 on the math ACT. His regents scores aren’t high enough and he didn’t do the alg 2. I’m hoping that he is inspired enough by the desire to avoid remedial math that he will pay attention to the ACT tutoring and get his score up a few points. I keep telling him that remedial math is a waste of time and money and he should try to avoid it if he can. If he can avoid it, it would reduce the number of math classes he has to take and that I have to pay for. That’s the best motivator I can think of.
As to the CC program, I checked the articulation/equivalency charts. It seems that about 2/3 of the classes transfer right over and the other have equivalents that would have to be examined on a case by case basis.
He has lots of things to think about and more options than it seemed he did when I made my initial post.
@techmom99 , I sent you a pm
If you post in the Theater/Drama sections, your questions about applying to both BA and BFA will be answered. A lot of experience with all schools and programs on that page.
I stumbled across this thread and I just want to reassure you that your son will be fine! Many schools and many, many of the SUNY schools want Algebra II/Trig but will look at his entire transcript. With the AP’s and other accomplishments he’s had there should be no problem. My daughter had higher maths but many, if not most of her friends struggled with Algebra II/Trig and didn’t pass. Two of these girls applied to just about every SUNY school because of fear they would have no place to go and the only rejections I heard of were Geneseo and Binghampton which could happen even with the math. One is attending Syracuse. There’s an entire thread on my daughter changing schools at the last minute and she was still accepted and given a scholarship to the very fine school she is now attending. The thing with math, though, is that my daughter had some trouble with it but we did all we could to help because you never know what the future will bring. In my other thread I mentioned how my daughter was an all-state musician and had won many contests and awards from 7th grade on. She didn’t take a lot of AP or college courses because she was so focused on music at a HS that offered a plethora of music classes. Before she took Algebra II/Trig we got her a tutor that concentrated on Algebra I and Geometry. Because with common core, even though she somehow managed A- 's in these classes she felt she didn’t “know” the material. It really helped because when she started Algebra II/Trig there were kids dropping out of the class like crazy and she was understanding! I’m glad we put that emphasis on math because senior year she decided she didn’t wish to pursue a music career anymore, and didn’t want to attend the school that was her first pick because it didn’t have all of the other things that she was now looking at because she was “no longer charging forward with blinders on” (not that your son is, but as she describes it now how she was singularly focused to the detriment of her own likes and wants and needs,). She still loves music and is participating in college orchestra but it is not her major. She went in undecided but is now seriously considering a hard science that requires more math. It’s only been a week and half at school but she’s already talked to professors that tell her not having that math coming in would have limited her choices. She’s still in exploratory mode but enjoys–yes actually enjoys-- college math (the way it is taught) much better than HS. She is at a competitive school as well and there are many kids in remedial math classes (meaning below Pre-Calculus) and they all got in. If you do decide on a liberal arts degree and it’s a SUNY school most are adopting the state mandated general Ed requirements and you only need to take one math course and it can be something like what used to be called Contemporary Mathematics, Logic (in the philosophy department), statistics or… Well there’s one other course I can’t think of, but looking at their curriculums for some of the students I help, and the fact I know students that took Contemporary math and got A’s that couldn’t pass HS geometry, there is math available thats passable. It’s not all formulas and equations and proofs. Without the AP classes and lots of honors other students took (although my daughter did take honors that fit her schedule) she was awarded a generous scholarship. I really think it was because of her success in music, because I truly believe success shows the ability to be successful in other things to schools, even if you find a different passion. If your son is absolutely interested in a school that demands Algebra II/Trig, I’d drop some of the AP and harder courses this year and take Algebra II/Trig and get an almost f/t tutor. You mentioned SUNY Purchase, other than majors that require auditions, it is not overly difficult to get into which is not saying it’s a bad school. I think it just has other priorities and that artistic flair that isn’t measured well on standardized tests.
I just wanted to add, which doesn’t really apply to your son, but you mention he got a 19 on the math section of the ACT. My neighbor got a 17 and is now an engineer! It took him a while to get there but he found a school with an excellent math department that served the needs of all students and he did it!
Thank you. I followed your thread with interest because we are a NY/SUNY family. My H attended Stony Brook and is heartbroken that not one of the children has the remotest interest in it. My D graduated from a SUNY and I have 2 other sons attending now. I’m not sure where your daughter is but it sounds like it worked out well for you and her.
Did your D do common core? I thought my son’s cohort was the first one to have to deal with it. I begged him to take the foundations class this year that I rejected for him last year, in some part because of the responses on this thread, but he is so happy not taking math. Perhaps 5 sciences (3 honors and 1 AP, plus one regular) can balance it out, he thinks. I offered to have his tutor work with him if he did the math but he is not interested. His tutor thinks he might be able to get up to a 21 on next week’s ACT.
He has visited Purchase, Pace, LIU-Post and Brooklyn. He didn’t like Brooklyn at all and loved Pace. That was VERY surprising to me because he has always said he hates Manhattan. We are 40 minutes away on the LIRR and he hardly ever goes in, but he said he really liked the program and the whole downtown area. All 3 of the schools he liked say they want the 3 years of math but when asked on the tours, they said it was not as big an issue for theater kids.
I know that your D changed her mind and might want to study math, but I would eat my aunt’s hand-knitted baby booties if S17 decided to study math. He asked me if I would pay for the tutor to help him take a CLEP test so that he wouldn’t have to take any math in college. He knows that is what I did when I went to college, although I didn’t use a tutor. I have never had a single regret about avoiding math in college. I did the same thing for science.
Geneseo and Binghamton aren’t on our radar, both grades wise and program wise. We are still considering Fredonia, Oswego, Oneonta and Buff State. The other option is our local CC, which has a good theater tech program and is a SUNY, so he could transfer.
I took the bare minimum math in college as well. And I survived and thrived! I know kids that are at Fredonia, Oswego, Oneonta and Buff State that all never passed Algebra II/Trig or didn’t even attempt it. My daughter’s high school somehow, insanely, switched to common core when she was in Geometry. In math and English they had to take both the common core and regents exams and could keep the higher score. My daughter took Honors English and got a 100 on the Common Core exam, saying “All we did was have to write a persuasive essay with the facts given.” She’s steering herself toward science and loves what’s she’s taking now, but her artistic side and Social Sciences side is so much…what would I call it… “More developed.” So there’s a big chance she won’t stick with it but I don’t know because she’s determined right now. But at one point in Algebra II/Trig (of all classes) she told me to never let her major in anything that required math! She hated it! But her father hated math and graduated the last year of HS in NY when you only had to take Algebra. But he ended up graduating with a BS and MS in Environmental Science from SUNY ESF. I didn’t meet him until after that, and have no idea how he did it! (It also took him 2 years plus a summer to pass HS Algebra!) We’ve been married 20 years and he just says math clicked in college, which is why he believes most people are capable of college math-- he’s living proof!
My son took both the Common Core and the real Algebra and Geometry regents and kept the higher score. In both, the higher score was in the real regents, the one he had not even taken the class in! What’s really sad is that he said he enjoyed geometry, but not the common core way. He would like to study it in college, but you have to get through algebra first. S17’s math tutor says the same thing that your H does about college math - and he teaches it. He thinks that if S17 was to take some math in college, he’d realize that he has more of an aptitude than he thinks. His LD really skews things. S17 scores very high on comprehension in math but extremely poorly in execution, which is the hallmark of LD.
For English, his class was the first to take only the CC. He earned a 74, but took a 6 day summer review and re-took the class for an 85. Given his dyslexia, I am thrilled that he earned mastery level. Our HS offers no honors English. All it offers is AP Comp in 11th and AP Lit in 12th. He is taking neither of those. He’s a social science kid, 98’s on both regents and an A in AP Psych, with a 3 on the test (enough for credit at a SUNY or the private schools we are considering, which is all I care about).
S17 is being heavily “recruited” by ESF with cards and emails arriving almost daily. He thinks it might be because he checked off that he likes science on the ACT form and that he’s in scouting. If it wasn’t for math, he’d consider studying it more heavily but he had to drop physics last year. Our HS offers a non-regents physics class but S17 opted for APES instead, because he hopes to get some college credit. Out of curiosity and if it’s not TMI, what does your H do with his degree?
sent you a PM
I know this is now an old thread, but did you look at Wagner College? It’s expensive but there is at least some merit money for tech majors.
@techmom99- I feel your situation. We had something very similar with Algebra 11/Trig (IB). Despite attending class every day, doing all of her homework & the following: peer tutoring, teacher tutoring, daddy tutoring (who has a BS in Astrophysics from UCBerkeley & is an IP Lawyer) our child’s grade amounted to a D and she ended up not passing the respective Regents exam in 2015. She took it again over the summer and still did not pass. Our child is an otherwise bright and very curious student (a theater kid!) who was also enrolled in AP and Honors courses and doing, otherwise, quite well. I had read in a variety of NY news articles the testing enforced on our kids in NY has been under the proverbial microscope for a number of reasons. In our district, the Common Core curriculum switch happened without any training with the staff and could be considered a “cluster you know what”. Our district had record opt-out for the testing… With too much in hanging in the balance we did something quite drastic: we found jobs in Ohio and picked up & moved ( I was already consulting here and was quite happy with the slower pace and incredibly nice nature of most people). Husband & I had enough of the NY politics and shenanagans with our children’s education… Notice of our local high school being placed into a state receivorship was the straw that broke the camels back.
I’ve completely digressed from your comment re: Alg11/trig. I agree there should be some flexibility in HS course load when it comes to some of the requirements that are currently in place. 
Keep us posted with the outcome.
PS- If he winds up at Otterbien, it’s not too far from us. Also consider Kent State in Kent, OH. They have a BFA as well and a warm welcoming atmosphere. D was accepted to the school and has her Musical Theater audition in just 4 weeks!
@rscgrad -
I have made peace with the situation. He retook the ACT and got a 24 on math! This puts him out of remedial at most schools and he has decided that he will take any required math at the local SUNY CC over the summer after his first year; as long as he gets a C, the credit will transfer. Hopefully, the 24 will suffice to show colleges that he is capable.
Our school district is also a cluster with CC. Very high opt out rates in the younger grades. I tried to opt S17 out of the CC math tests and was told that if he didn’t take those, he wouldn’t be allowed to take the real regents exams. Unlike in the younger grades, the HS tests are needed for graduation.
You relocated to Ohio? How is your H practicing law? Was he already admitted there or does he hold the type of job where admission to the bar doesn’t really matter? I am a trial attorney so I couldn’t work anywhere else unless I got admitted and, at my age, I don’t really relish learning all new laws.
Good luck to your D on her audition. We have looked at Otterbein, but the real issue is that my H doesn’t travel well and it would be nearly impossible to visit S17 and see any of his work. For that reason, he has decided to try to stay within a couple of hours of home.
Wagner, mentioned by someone else. fits this bill, as do Purchase, Pace, Post and a few others.
Thanks for the good thoughts.
@techmom99- Hurray for the success with the ACT!
It is so sad what has happened with the Education system in NY. I watched in horror as the transformation has been taking place. We moved from CA to NY to escape (in part a horrid ED system) only to fall right into the middle of a similar situation
My husband is a patent attorney (federal law) & was recently admitted to the Ohio bar. He promised me he was not doing that again, so we best stay put in Ohio. 
Pace has an excellent theater program. My daughter’s voice teacher’s children all went there. Two have worked Broadway now- her sons were in Book of Mormon & Bridges of Madison County! Her youngest was in the national tour of Elf and also swing in A Christmas Story!
Wishing you all well in this transition!
Just in case this is helpful: http://fairtest.org/university/optional