What is the "T14" of MBA schools?

Graduate School Business School - MBA
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<p>LoL on the_prestige’s link. ha ha ha …</p>

<p>The_Prestige, you referred to the PA of undergrad education. No one has contested that Yale’s undergrad is superior to Berkeley’s undergrad. You’re giving me a hard laugh. The people that are around me right now are laughing on your posts as well. We cannot believe you. lol</p>

<p>The PA score which you provided has Berkeley and Yale neck-on-neck again, for a very long time now. Yale has 4.8 this year. Berkeley has 4.7. That’s not a considerable gap to me. And, that’s fro undergrad, which we all know that Yale is quite strong on that area. Last year, both Berkeley and Yale were tied at 4.8. So, they really are neck-and-neck even when basing it on your very source. </p>

<p>Now, let me give you what the world view them:</p>

<p>Top 100 Universities: Top 100 Colleges and Universities
[Top</a> 100 Universities: Top Universities Best Colleges Top 100 Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.ulinks.com/topuniversities.htm]Top”>Top 100 Universities in the World: Best Colleges)</p>

<p>*Our list of top 100 universities and colleges in the world is displayed below. This top colleges and universities list has been created after careful consideration and evaluation of numerous factors, including reputation, competitiveness, admissions criteria, etc. *</p>

<p>Rank * Name of University * Country
1 Harvard University USA
2 University of Oxford UK
3 University of Cambridge UK
4 Stanford University USA
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA
6 University of California, Berkeley USA
7 California Institute of Technology USA
8 Princeton University USA
9 Yale University USA
10 University of Chicago USA</p>

<p>11 Columbia University USA
12 University of California, San Diego USA
13 Cornell University USA
14 University of California, Los Angeles USA
15 University Pennsylvania USA
16 University of Wisconsin, Madison USA
17 University of Washington, Seattle USA
18 Tokyo University Japan
19 University of California, San Francisco USA
20 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor USA</p>

<p>(See, I was right on my top 9!) </p>

<p>[World</a> Universities’ ranking on the Web: top 6000 World Ranking](<a href=“http://www.webometrics.info/top6000.asp]World”>http://www.webometrics.info/top6000.asp)
Berkeley - 4
Yale - 36</p>

<p>Give me more data. Make sure data that’s something we can use this time. Because for every data you give, I will give you two. lol</p>

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<p>listen, RML, everyone knows that Yale is more prestigious than Cal. You can live in your own delusional world.</p>

<p>“lol”. what are you 12?</p>

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<p>^ lol</p>

<p>if you think i’m 12, what age would that makes you, 1? lol</p>

<p>listen, the prestige, everyone knows that UC Berkeley is as prestigious as Yale. Everyone also knows that for postgrad and professional education, there isn’t such a thing as HYPSM. You can live in your own delusional world.</p>

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<p>OK, want a real dose of perception and reality? This is what the average person thinks of when they think of Cal:</p>

<p>Berkeley undergrad = tree hugging, tie-died t-shirt wearing hippy who hasn’t shaved or showered for a couple of semesters who is constantly stoned.</p>

<p>Berkeley grad = uber geek never without trusty slide ruler and pocket protector that has never gotten laid outside of the world of warcraft.</p>

<p>Now, I’m not saying that these are accurate or even fair perceptions, but that’s generally what people think – if they were forced to generalize. Only in the highly self selecting / discriminating world of CC (or in another similarly highly specialized field / group) does Cal get the kind of academic props you are talking about.</p>

<p>You can try and convince people on CC until you are blue in the face that its more (or as) prestigious as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford or MIT. It’s a free world after all.</p>

<p>But in the real world outside of CC, Cal just doesn’t carry the kind of instant recognition / prestige of an Ivy or Stanford / MIT. I’m sorry to tell you this but it’s the harsh reality that you probably already know deep inside –> which is ultimately what likely drives you to constantly delude yourself into making these fanatical posts about Cal.</p>

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<p>This thread is getting kind of out of control. </p>

<p>At the end of the day it’s not where you get your degree from, it’s what you do that really matter. You can have a high school degree, but if you become CEO of fortune 500, who cares?</p>

<p>Going to a “better” school shouldn’t be about bragging rights. It should be about trying to get a quality education. And for MBA, Yale and Haas are on par with each other.</p>

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<p>But Yale Law > Berkeley Boalt.</p>

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<p>Haagen Dazs > Haas</p>

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<p>Are you serious? People think Yale grad programs are superior to UCB? I’ve actually never even heard of that before.</p>

<p>For sure, YLS is better than Boalt. That’s it. Is there any other major grad program that’s better at Yale than UCB?</p>

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<p>When you say “major” grad program, people generally think of the big 3 professional grad schools: Medicine, Law and Business.</p>

<p>**Law: YLS has long been considered the nation’s best.
Medicine: Yale Medical School is a consistent Top 10 program (UCB has no med school)
Business: **Yale SOM is currently ranked no. 10 vs. Haas at no. 7, it’s still ranked in the top 10 and only 3 places behind Cal.</p>

<p>So, Yale’s big 3 are all ranked in the Top 10, with a no. 1 ranking for its Law school. That’s pretty “major”.</p>

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<p>Actually, I wouldn’t have gone with that stereotype - frankly, that sounds more reminiscent of the stereotype of MIT. </p>

<p>A better Berkeley stereotype (grad or undergrad) would be a harridan feminazi of a political persuasion to the left of Marx. </p>

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<p>To be fair, I would argue that Berkeley has better prestige (to the common man) than does Brown, Dartmouth, or even Cornell UPenn. Let’s face it - most regular people have never heard of Brown or Dartmouth, and it’s debatable whether they’ve heard of Cornell and whether they actually differentiate UPenn from Penn State.</p>

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<p>PhD programs have to count for something, otherwise there’s little reason to consider MIT, having only 1 professional school, to be considered a ‘major’ grad institution, and certainly no reason to consider Princeton as one.</p>

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<p>Ah that would come back to my “hamburger analogy” (prestige vs. familiarity – see link). I’d agree that Cal may have more familiarity than, say, a Brown, Dartmouth or Penn but it isn’t necessarily more prestigious.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/4939699-post260.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/4939699-post260.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Heck, as you mentioned a school like Penn State or a Michigan along with the USC, Notre Dame, Florida, Texas, Ohio State all have HUGE familiarity – is it any surprise that these are the traditional college football powerhouses showcased non stop by ESPN and its media brethren? Walk into any major sporting good store and those are the brands in stock.</p>

<p>…but that doesn’t mean = prestige.</p>

<p>Now granted Cal’s football program isn’t nearly successful as some of those aforementioned programs, but its default status as a Pac-10 member gives it undeniable national coverage vs. powerhouse football programs, USC, UCLA, Notre Dame, etc.</p>

<p>Cal may be more familiar, but I’d argue that it’s prestige isn’t as high. Conversely, Stanford, another bonafide Pac-10 member is known more for its academic program rather than its athletic program (which is funny since aside from football their athletic program has been prolific across the board in a wide range of sports). That may be perception rather than reality. But, again, it’s more prestigious than Cal. When people mention Stanford football (or its players), people generally note that on top of any noted physical skills, they are a scholar athlete AT Stanford. That’s an enviable package when you can marry familiarity AND prestige = Stanford University (or Harvard).</p>

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<p>I agree they should count for something. The fact of the matter is your average person couldn’t identify the fact that Princeton doesn’t have a business or law school – but even if they did, it doesn’t take away from its incredibly high level of academic familiarity / awareness or from its prestige a single iota (in either perception or reality).</p>

<p>The fact that its the only Ivy which doesn’t have one of the big three programs, and yet still ranks as a top research university (in terms of quality of faculty, scholars, endowment, research output, etc.) is quite simply amazing, is it not? It may not have the breadth of a Stanford or Harvard, but what it does, it does exceedingly well.</p>

<p>Which is why Princeton, even with its undergraduate focus – in fact THE best undergrad program IMO, should always be considered in discussions when considering top graduate schools (obviously for those programs it offers).</p>

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<p>I would argue that Berkeley is both more familiar and more prestigious than Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn, to the common man. Berkeley is not only a Pac-10 sports school, but also has an distinctive academic brand name that is recognizable to the common man - certainly more so than those 3 schools, especially UPenn which carries the unfortunate problem of having a name easily confusable with just another regular state school. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most regular people believe Berkeley to be a private school and UPenn to be a state school. {I continually run into even highly educated people who do not realize that Berkeley is a state school, and these very same people are also surprised to learn that UPenn is actually an Ivy.} </p>

<p>Now, if we’re talking about people who know the rankings well, then the argument changes, and for this case, it is still true (for the time being) that Haas is still better than Yale SOM. Granted, that may not hold in the future, but at this time, I - and most of my colleagues - cannot accept that Yale SOM is better than Haas right now. Yale SOM’s scholarly reputation, in terms of academic publications, still pales to Haas’s. Few new aspiring management faculty would turn down a position at Haas for one at Yale. Haas MBA’s make higher salaries than do Yale MBA’s. {And, being familiar with both locations, I can say without a doubt that living in Berkeley far surpasses living in New Haven. Better weather, better culture, far greater variety of things to do - there is no comparison to be made in that regard. I think even most Yale supporters would have to concede that point.} </p>

<p>Now, I agree with the points you’ve made on other threads that Yale SOM could surpass Haas and become the next great B-school in the future, potentially in the very near future. But we simply don’t know if that’s going to happen. </p>

<p>In particular, Yale SOM suffers from the sheer proximity of a large number of well-established top B-schools, whereas Haas has to contend with only one serious geographic rival. More importantly, the future of business schools is clearly going to depend heavily upon the strength of interdisciplinary work with the pure social science departments - psychology, economics, and sociology - a source of strength for Berkeley relative to Yale. {Yale’s sociology department is notably weak relative to Berkeley’s}. Many (probably most) new business faculty aspire to publish not in management journals but in top social science journals and to curry academic respectability within those pure social science disciplines, and indeed, many new management faculty are indeed little more than transplanted social scientists of those pure disciplines. {Note, whether this change is good or bad for the future of B-schools is an entirely different discussion; what is indisputable is that the change is underway.} A school such as Berkeley that offers a wide breadth of expertise in the pure social sciences will hold an important edge in terms of new faculty recruitment over those that don’t.</p>

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<p>We will have to agree to disagree. Cal may be more familiar, but again, its just as likely to be known as a hippy factory and last bastion of liberalism as it is for its football program as it is for its grad schools = its equal parts of a lot of different things, but not solely or overwhelmingly known for its academics. </p>

<p>MIT? Smart kids. No overhang about football or guys chaining themselves to a tree, girls burning their bras or students marching with peace signs. I mean let’s face it, when you think epicenter of student activism, Berkeley comes immediately to a lot of minds – including mine.</p>

<p>The point? That Cal’s reputation while more familiar (or “infamous”?) to the common man isn’t necessarily 100% positive. I’d argue it is nearly equal parts = hippy liberal / PAC-10 football / grad school. Prestige-wise still less than a Dartmouth, Brown or UPenn (and in my circles by a wide, wide margin).</p>

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<p>Sure, perhaps not solely or overwhelmingly known for academics. But it is still known for academics. That’s, frankly, more than can be said for the lower Ivies, which suffer from a lack of common-man familiarity and common-man prestige. {Like I said, UPenn unfairly gets shafted by its unfortunately banal name.} </p>

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<p>But we’re not talking about MIT. We’re talking specifically about Berkeley vs. the lower Ivies. Let’s face it. Most regular people can’t name more than a few of the Ivies. Heck, I know highly educated people who struggle with naming all 8. </p>

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<p>Then I would suspect that your circle would understand that Berkeley is indeed a grad powerhouse - certainly more so than any of the lower Ivies. I would also suspect that they would also know that Haas - at least for the time being - is still a better B-school than Yale SOM. Again, in the future, that may change. But as of this moment, I’m still going with Haas.</p>

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<p>Frankly, and perhaps this is because I have spent my career in finance (as opposed to the hard sciences), Cal isn’t really known in my peer group as this undeniable academic “powerhouse” (grad or otherwise) – and I’ve never perceived it to be. I’ve always felt it was very strong in the sciences, that much I knew. Otherwise, its MBA program? It never came to mind when I was considering b-schools. Didn’t even realize it was supposed to be any good. But to read the Cal fanatics on this site, you’d think the institution invented the concept of higher education. </p>

<p>In general, schools that garner immediate respect:</p>

<ul>
<li>HBS / Stanford / Wharton (for MBA) </li>
<li>Yale / HLS / Stanford / Columbia (law school) </li>
<li>HYPSM + Ivies (for undergrad)</li>
</ul>

<p>Though I am generalizing, in my circles, the Ivy clout / credit given to the so-called “lower Ivies” is generally reserved for undergrad rather than grad school. </p>

<p>And I would absolutely acknowledge that Yale SOM is no where near an HBS equivalent. But similarly, when it comes to Haas? That’s not blowing anyone away. It’s not a slam dunk / obvious choice over SOM. Frankly, in my years in investment banking, PE, hedge funds plus consultants I’ve met over the course of my career – I can’t recall a single Haas grad, and that is the God’s honest truth. </p>

<p>Conversely, I’ve met a number of SOM grads. Now granted that is completely anecdotal and in the bigger picture it’s really neither here nor there, but Haas? Nah, doesn’t impress me in the least. From a cynical view, it tells me the guy was barely good enough for a Top 10-ish school but wasn’t good enough for an M7 – and probably not a prayer’s chance at an HBS or Stanford (yeah, that’s harsh and prolly not “PC”, but it is what it is - and I’m not going to sugar coat what I really think). Now same can be said for Yale SOM, of course, but at least: 1) it’s been trending higher; 2) everyone gives the Yale name / brand due respect; 3) with one of the smallest enrollment sizes of the major b-schools, its become extremely selective. For my money, if I were choosing between Haas and SOM today? SOM no question. Absolutely no brainer.</p>

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<p>^ Sloan is the business school of MIT. And according to you, HYPSM is unbeatable when it comes to prestige and the general prestige of the school influences - extremely highly - the university’s business school. Now, how come Sloan isn’t better than Wharton in terms of prestige despite that Wharton’s “parent university” isn’t one of the HYPSM? </p>

<p>Same argument for Oxford and Cambridge over LBS. </p>

<p>Please explain.</p>

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<p>^ try reading the post right above yours (#77).</p>

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<p>Not trying to impose but this may possibly be because of a) Your geographical location and b) The nature of the business you’re in. </p>

<p>If you were either situated in San Francisco/LA/the West Coast in general, or did any type of work with sustainable energy/VC involving energy groups/trading in the energy/tech market, I’m sure you’d find more Haas/Cal grads. </p>

<p>Before anyone says anything about bias I attend a lower Ivy and did not attend Cal for undergrad (got in) because I did not like the school as much as the one I am attending, nor am I a big fan. </p>

<p>Just my two cents, but I would say that Yale clearly has a better brand name among the average person than does Berkeley. I am not debating whether or not this reputation is warranted, I’m just saying it exists. </p>

<p>I would also say that right now, as far as pure MBA programs go, I would place Haas as a clear superior to SOM. True, Yale has a better name than Berkeley, but Haas has been around longer, has a more extensive alumni network, and has had the time and ability to generate better connections in the business world globally than has SOM. </p>

<p>I do agree with the_prestige in the sense that I do feel Yale’s superior brand name will allow SOM to grow at a face pace, primarily because a large number of Yale’s UG population have had successful careers in the business industries despite the absence of a prominent MBA program. Yale’s UG school has been able to successfully tap this network, and I feel SOM will be able to as well. Also, I think the power of Yale’s alumni network in general will do much to help SOM gain legitimacy in both the domestic and global markets (I think this is where brand power/alumni networks come into play). </p>

<p>However, here and now, I don’t think you can much of a case for the worth of an SOM MBA over a Haas MBA. I suppose you could make one for getting an SOM MBA now as in the future it will be worth more than a Haas MBA, but that’s debatable. </p>

<p>In the same way I would not rank SOM above Haas, I would similarly not rank Haas above any of the_prestige’s other “M7” however, unless I planned on going into a very specific industry (one of those schools probably has a superior program in that field anyways though).</p>