<p>When DS was a freshman at ZooMass he called me one day to say: Dad, I understand now that college is just a business. If they wanted to, they could kick half the freshman class out for violating the no alcohol in the dorms policy. He said this after his buddy got caught carrying 4 cases of beer into his dorm and was only given a warning. It wasnt even confiscated; security just told him to go drink it somewhere else. The buddy was 19!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, this. At any party at my undergrad university hosted by any living group that I cared enough about to go to their parties, anyone caught being threatening or violent, regardless of intoxication, would have had their ass kicked out. If what they did was bad enough, they would have been PNGed (banned from entering that living group). Drunkenness or a party atmosphere weren’t considered excuses to be a predator.</p>
<p>We had an amnesty policy and a student-run EMT fleet (which provided a medical resource other than the campus police). We also had lower than average rates of binge drinking, but it certainly existed. The focus was very much on health and safety rather than enforcement per se.</p>
<p>I would say that drinking, including some binge drinking, is the norm, but predatory behavior does not have to be and should not be.</p>
<p>My daughter’s RA (she’s responsible for 50 freshmen) told them all flat out if she smelled alcohol in the dorm there would be trouble. Further, if someone did not allow her into the dorm room where alcohol was suspected, she would call the police. This is at a UC campus. Can’t speak for any of the other dorms, but alcohol is available primarily at the frat houses for anyone who wants that. One of the residents is apparently already on academic probation for alcohol consumption. I guess they mean business.</p>
<p>D’s school - Amnesty policy in place and abide by local laws. HUGE frat scene. I know she has a beer or two when at these parties.
S’s school - School has no interest in getting involved. Only freshman live in dorms. Drinking age is 18 - Canada. Has certainly seen - and I’m sure, has had - some wild nights.
Neither kid drank in HS but were allowed (legally) to have a drink- usually wine- with us when out for dinner. S had occasional beer with dinner this summer when home. D never took us up on the offer</p>
<p>This is a huge discussion at my s’s school. And when I say discussion, I mean to say it continues to evolve. My understanding is that their view acknowledges that drinking occurs on college campuses and to have a zero-tolerance is to also have zero-discussion and no opportunity to “educate” on all levels of adulthood. The current mission seems to be intended to curb binge or otherwise “destructive” drinking. The local town police have been asked to not come onto campus and most warnings and citations are given by the campus security. They are trying to build a culture of taking it out of the closet (as is where most binge drinking occurs), which I can appreciate as a parent. You get caught with a cup/beer in hand, and are underage, and you get a citation. First one is freebie, second one is mandatory meeting with dean, and third one is review and notice to parents. I am sure the punishment escalates, but it seems to me that most of the disciplinary consequences of suspension or expulsion revolve around any kind of cheating, not drinking. </p>
<p>There is a little bit of hypocrisy in that you can be falling down drunk, but if you’re not actually in possession of alcohol (and are with friends or otherwise in good care), you won’t face consequences. However, you could be holding someone else’s beer and get busted.</p>
<p>So, in trying to get a campus wide conversation going about the current and evolving alcohol policy, the administration is holding all kinds of forums and open meetings that would be great if the kids would actually show up to discuss it. As it is, they seem to be mostly complaining about the closing of the 24 hour health center where kids who were really bad off could go and sleep it off. The school is mostly asking that kids be more responsible for their own and their friends behavior. The editorials in the school paper, however, seem to think this cost cutting measure steps on their inalienable rights to black out under the influence.</p>
<p>Clearly, there is a middling ground, but I do appreciate my son’s School’s approach that is to neither turn a blind eye or making sweeping arrests. But I wholly support lowering the drinking age to 19 with some good educational systems in place (much like provisional driving licensing laws) until age 21/23. I find it hard for schools to address an issue many of them deal with in an open and honest way when, for all intent and purpose, what the kids are doing is illegal. So how does a school open up the conversation so as to affect all of campus positively while not encouraging the use among students who may not be drinking at all? What I find most interesting, however, is that most studies show that students who think that “everyone” is getting blotto every weekend are usually those who think everyone else is drinking as much as them!</p>
<p>I just think that any school policy has to address their very real role of educating students, not just in the classroom, but in all aspects of life. Our culture exploits the fun and necessity of drinking. To not as an adult is to wonder if you are don’t drink OR you can’t drink (aka alcoholic). Colleges cannot educate students on responsible drinking with any real success unless they basically ignore the law to do so. But to just set a policy that bears no resemblance to it’s actual implementation is teaching kids to sneak, lie and basically learn that the “rules” don’t apply to them. Not good.</p>
<p>Agree. I was happy to learn that my oldest son’s college has a no keg/container rule on campus. I like the idea that they do not allow “empties” AKA empty beer can pyramids and the such in the dorm rooms. I think there are small things that colleges can do that set a tone regarding alcohol. I think if a dorm is a no booze no drug dorm then it should be strictly enforced. I see no problem with campus security breaking up groups of kids that are congregating in open spaces with alcohol present. In those small regards certainly college administration can “walk the talk.” I do think it is interesting in the previous post that the kids viewed the 24 hour health center as a detox facility. So perhaps the college is correct in pushing back on the kids alittle to be responsible and not abdicate to the college to “protect” them 24/7.</p>
<p>“As it is, they seem to be mostly complaining about the closing of the 24 hour health center where kids who were really bad off could go and sleep it off.”</p>
<p>The university in my town closed its 24/7 health Clinic just for that reason. The nurse(s) on duty did not feel safe wrestling with the intoxicated football player whose teammates just dumped him there. I can understand the safety/liability issue.</p>
<p>^^ Agreed. Plus, there is a regional hospital less than a half mile down the road for emergencies. Still, the student’s point of view is that they will be less likely to seek help because of the repercussions and the bill associated with a hospital involvement. My counter to that is to suggest if you want to be treated like adults, than perhaps acting like one would be a good step in that direction.</p>
<p>This said, I think everyone has to learn where their line is… whether that’s two glasses of wine, a six pack or a couple shots. However, I don’t see how a rule about kegs fits. From an entirely environmental standpoint, kegs are far more friendly than either cans or bottles, regardless of their pyramid building skills. And at Son’s school, they are actually trying to set some new policies to get them back on campus so as to lessen the use of hard alcohol. So I just want to ask, why is it good to have a no keg policy? Do we honestly think this keeps them from drinking as much as they would otherwise or does it influence what they drink?</p>
<p>Why is it the responsibility of colleges to educate adults, (i.e., 18+ year old students), about the hazards and responsibilities of drinking? Wasn’t that their parents’ job?</p>
<p>College is an experience that is not replicated in the home. Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner or let’s just say even having wine or beer at dinner is not the same as learning to drink at a cocktail party or drinking shots. </p>
<p>Obviously, 18 year olds are not considered adults when it comes to drinking. In the eyes of the law, there isn’t a state in this country where it is LEGAL to drink at 18 – and that is where the problem lies. Perhaps if my kid was living under my roof and never drank until he was 21 (and that would make him a senior in college) perhaps I would have more influence on “teaching” him. But the majority of the consequences of drinking are being played out on college campuses. It does become part of the educational atmosphere of college to “learn how to drink” whether you want it that way or not. And therefore, if college is about gaining the skills to be a successful and contributory adult both educationally and socially, than that would include relationships with alcohol. If the kid was under my roof through this span, it wouldn’t nearly be a “collegiate” experience as it is living on campus. My kid did not attend these kinds of parties or have these temptations through most of high school. Sure, we talked about it but he isn’t coming home to my requests to breath on me now, is he? I want him held accountable without it being overly punitive, especially when (as you point out) in every other way he is considered an adult. </p>
<p>Allowing your kids to have a glass of wine at dinner is one thing. But buying your kids beer to teach them how to drink before college age would be, in my estimation, a little bit of jumping the gun. I am not saying it is the administrations duty to teach drinking, but it is on their watch that most relationships with alcohol are developed. Anything they can do to keep it out of the closest would go a long way to avoiding destructive drinking patterns from developing, which is what you don’t want most.</p>
<p>Just read on facebook that a college student in Florida was awakened three times last night and evacuated because pot smokers set off the fire alarm in the freshman dorms. Who needs alcohol anyway. 
Sheesh. Pretty pathetic.</p>
<p>I think that the no keg policy at my son’s school came about to keep the parties smaller and shorter in duration and out of public areas. I understand your point but I also think while kids can maybe sneak a 6 pack or a 12 pack under their winter coat and into a party, you really can’t hide a keg and when the 6 or 12 pack is gone it’s gone and generally the party is over. I hear from my oldest that there is some Boubon, Schnaps for skiing etc. usage, but I suspect his school is a more a beer school.</p>
<p>I agree that it probably is intended to work that way. However… there is probably a higher likelihood that alcohol poisoning occurs with hard liquor and is why there is a push to make that much harder to get. I also think that if you have to register a kegger with the administration in some way there is more notice that there is a party going on vs the drink the 12 pack in the room and then going to other places the rest of the night. Point here is that kids in college drink. It is how they drink and to what extent that it encroaches on otherwise healthy living that schools should (and mostly do) concern themselves. </p>
<p>As a point of reference… when I was about 17 we got a hold of a bottle of scotch. I can only tell you this… to this day, I cannot even stand the smell of scotch let alone drink it.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I agree with a “no keg” policy, at least from an environmental point of view.</p>
<p>“Back in the day” all the frats on campus had kegs before the big rivalry game, the drinking went on mostly in the frat house and/or on the lawn directly around it, and all there was by way of garbage was plastic cups. Now DS has shown me photos of the one open area where drinking was permitted before the big rivalry game this year, and it was disgusting - huge mounds of cans, broken glass bottles, plastic bottles and cardboard cartons (from 6 packs and cases) everywhere. I honestly think that 15 smaller, primarily indoor parties featuring beer tapped from 1 - 2 kegs at a time kept things more under control than a huge outdoor party with kids drinking pretty much whatever they wanted. </p>
<p>But that is a one-a-year event.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, it is a tricky issue to navigate, especially with the amount of hypocrisy around drinking and minors. I think at the very least, it is important to set some standards of behavior, such as not allowing open containers in public, common areas, and disciplining destructive or violent behavior. As an administrator, or even as a parent, you can’t control your kids, nor would you want to, but you have to establish standards of behavior so that they have some perspective on what is socially acceptable. If a student is repeatedly drunk and abusive and is never disciplined, what kind of message is that sending? My D is really disgusted with her college administration, and rightly so.</p>