“I can’t help but think about the rather surprising number of parents who asked about getting rule exceptions during the tours of “top colleges” we’ve taken. My sense was that they were accustomed to getting exceptions where they came from.”
The addendum to “ask if an exception can be made” is “do so privately and politely, not in public settings where it isn’t all about you.”
This is true, OHMom. (Ditto.) Perhaps there are two directions on this thread. One has to do with poverty; the other with social cluelessness. The two are not always congruent.
I’m still thinking about this point of asking for exceptions. I think this is a bigger cultural point, and not just related to economic status. (It also is affected by personality.) I think I would put it a bit differently, and that is not everybody knows what is negotiable, and what isn’t. The deadline for your paper is probably somewhat negotiable, as long as you have a good reason for an extension. But kids can get burned in the other direction, by assuming incorrectly that something is negotiable. If we’re talking about a smart kid from a weak high school, he or she probably never needed an extension on anything before.
I think this also manifests itself in whether a student will just endure some problem, or will seek out help. I think kids from higher SES families may be more savvy about complaining and seeking assistance–although there are cultural and personality barriers to this as well.
@Pizzagirl Ha Ha. Based on the body language exhibited when they heard the answer, I’m pretty sure they felt as if the question still wasn’t settled and the administration will hear about it again.
Well, there’s no cure for crass!
“think kids from higher SES families may be more savvy about complaining and seeking assistance–although there are cultural and personality barriers to this as well”
Honestly I do get aggravated if my kids don’t make full use of resources available to them - because my mindset is “I’m paying for it, you might as well use it.”
Amen! That is what I told my daughter few weeks ago. Use the resources that are supposed to be there to help you. If you don’t, then why are we paying the extra 30K compared to the flagship public U.
One thing that kids from disadvantaged backgrounds have to learn is to “clean up” their speech in certain settings. While middle class kids often swear in ways that would make a sailor curse in private conversations, they know not to do it in a classroom discussion. I’ve judged speech and debate contests in which inner city kids were obviously struggling not to use curse words, especially the “F word.” It is difficult for them to talk without using them; it’s an ingrained habit.
Grammar is another. My ex-H is extremely smart. He grew up in a blue collar household and said things like “He axed me” ;“He don’t” and “I bought it off him” all the time.I met him in law school. I used to correct him in private and he learned better grammar. People tend to dismiss what you say if your grammar is abysmal, even if what you are saying is insightful. I went back to school a couple of years ago and got a master’s. One of the young woman in my classes was an African-American who had graduated from CUNY. Her grammar in spoken language was abysmal. I knew it would cause her problems when she went job-hunting. As far as I know, though, no professor ever corrected her.
One of the students in the linked article said she often knew a word from her reading, but didn’t know how to say it. That too is an issue.
I think it can be intimidating if you begin to realize that your speech gives you away. Some kids become reluctant to open their mouths.
Good point, jonri. My DH was an avid reader as a kid, and he grew up in a foreign country, so the books he was reading (in English) had words he wasn’t always using in conversational speech. So every now and then he pops out with a word that he mispronounces because he encoded it that was (the “sound”) when he read it. The only one that comes to mind is the word carrel (as in the study carrels you use in the library). Its pronounced like the girl’s name “carol” , but he puts the emphasis on the second syllable (ca-REL). Drives me nuts. And, he taught it incorrectly to DS#1 who was building them for a homeless shelter as part of his eagle scout project. So now I have 2 family members who mispronounce it! Ack!
@ blossom < Social/life skills- a professor does not expect you to reciprocate if he/she invites you home for dinner. You do, however, need to RSVP, and no, your significant other is not included in the invitation unless specified, or unless he/she got his own invite because he/she is in the class. If you read online that you should show up at a dinner party with a bottle of wine and you are underage, you should not bring a bottle of wine to a professor’s house. (even if you routinely buy alcohol for you and your friends).
If you are the recipient of a named scholarship, fellowship, grant, etc. and your department sends you an email “suggesting” that you write a thank you note (with the name and address of the recipient- either the grant officer from a foundation or a family member of the donor) this is not a suggestion. This is what you need to do, especially if there is a possibility of future funding. A note is a note- four lines expressing gratitude, pointing out what you did or are doing with the money and why it will benefit your education, and adding how much you appreciate the opportunities you are getting at University X. This is not considering “sucking up”- this is what you do.
If a professor writes on a paper “you may want to consult XYZ source in the future” this is also not a suggestion- this is a tactful way of telling you that you’ve got a gap in your general knowledge which you need to fix. However, suggestions on the official syllabus “Extra reading for those who are interested includes the following books/monographs” is indeed- extra reading, i.e. a suggestion>
I broke all of this at some point of my life !!! Should I apologize, now? Many years had passed …
@ TheGFG <knowing how="" to="" drive="" a="" car.="" understanding="" that="" private="" doctor’s="" offices="" are="" not="" like="" walk-in="" clinics="" and="" appointments="" required.="" knowing="" you="" should="" send="" thank="" note="" after="" job="" interview.="" what="" is="" an="" appropriate="" hostess="" gift="" probably="" bring="" small="" one="" when="" invited="" friend’s="" house="" for="" the="" thanksgiving="" weekend.="" kind="" of="" wine="" goes="" with="" turkey.="" wear="" places="" events="" only="" have="" never="" attended="" but="" barely="" knew="" existed,="" eg.="" skeet="" shooting="" at="" country="" club.="" generally="" having="" ready="" polite="" diplomatic="" ways="" communicate="" thoughts="" feelings,="" especially="" negative="" ones.="" whether="" jar="" organic="" ______________="" (fill="" in="" blank="" some="" expensive="" product)="" your="" roommate="" gifted="" supposed="" be="" food="" or="" medicine="" ?.="">
Gosh, I broke nearly all of these rules as well, at some point of my life 
Sure, breaking the rules is one way to learn.
Is there a kind of wine that has to go with turkey?
White wine.
And note the hostess gift 
Re #427 and grammar
Don’t linguists consider such variations to be the development of a dialect which may have different grammar rules than standard (upper middle class) English?
Of course, acceptance and success in upper middle class endeavors (e.g. college) tends to favor those who use the expected dialect in those situations.
@jym626 I’m a dark meat consumer. White is usually the wrong choice there.
I saw the hostess gift. There’s no accounting for bad taste and social anxiety.
Teachers have been forbidden from correcting dialects. The new thinking is that it is culturally insensitive to tell a kid that he is speaking incorrectly or ungrammatically when he says “ax” meaning “ask,” or “he done” instead of “he did,” since the former are perfectly “correct” in their communities.
^ that’s insane
This stuff is not social anxiety. It’s that in their world, when you go to someone’s house you don’t bring anything, or you bring a six-pack of cheap beer. You don’t bring flowers, or wine, chocolates, or cute guest towels. Frankly, if my mom hadn’t had worked as a waitress at an exclusive hotel when she was younger, she wouldn’t have known some of the social things she taught me, and even so her instruction was insufficient.
I think the whole idea of correcting or pointing out a lot of these things can be a slippery slope. The student may end up feeling insulted or put down. Understandably, a lot of professors and others who might be in a position to help will steer clear. That’s why I like the idea of mentoring. The student is asking for guidance. In that scenario you are on safer ground and run less risk of insulting them.
Re wine:
And a kid who’s been with their parents when they’ve bought wine as a hostess gift knows that the best wine is not necessarily the most expensive, and that you can ask someone at the wine store for a recommendation. I can see a kid who’s never done this before being scared that they’ll pick out the wrong thing or look like an idiot at the wine store, thinking that everyone else knows how to pair food and wine.