I agree. For instance, if we all agree that syntax is the study of the principles and rules for constructing sentences in natural languages, it stands to reason that it should be placed in context of your own community. By way of example, I remember not too long ago, that ending a sentence in a preposition was grammatically unseemly and thought of as a no-no, by the snarky commandants of the English language–now it is almost de rigueur, by NYT’s writers.
Re: the wine/other gifts. I am still absolutely convinced that this is a regional thing. I have been to many dinner parties at various professors’ houses and wine (and/or other gifts) is never brought by anyone- either by other professors or students.
I don’t drink wine and would have no idea what to pick out if I felt the need to but it’s simply not something that’s done around here.
^^^
You could be right that it is regional because I have never been to a party (besides a child’s party) where guests have walked in empty handed. Most commonly a bottle of wine is brought but it could be anything - dessert, chocolate or a bouquet. At BBQ’s you occasionally see people come with an extra side dish. In my experience the “hostess gift” is reserved for occasions when you are invited for an overnight or week-end stay.
Honestly I really do not think that hosts are keeping score here. We just bring something out of habit and certainly do not hold it against someone who does not.
When D1 was around 7 or 8 my sister called the house to ask to speak with me. D1 told her I wasn’t home and asked her if she wanted to leave a message. My sister said, “It’s not important. I know your mom likes wine. I am working on a cross word puzzle, and it says a French wine that starts with an S and ends with E.” D1, without giving it much thought, said, “Oh, it is probably Sancerre.” She actually spelled it for my sister. I don’t know what that really meant.
"Re: the wine/other gifts. I am still absolutely convinced that this is a regional thing. I have been to many dinner parties at various professors’ houses and wine (and/or other gifts) is never brought by anyone- either by other professors or students.
I don’t drink wine and would have no idea what to pick out if I felt the need to but it’s simply not something that’s done around here."
I’m quite sure it’s done in Michigan - just a few weeks ago, I had some wine in the Sister Lakes area! It may not just be done in your particular social circles.
I don’t drink, either, though, and honestly I wouldn’t know what wine to bring. And my kids haven’t been around that, and they would have no idea what wine to bring either. They’d understand the concept of a hostess gift though - just not wine in particular.
We are not drinkers, and would not have the extra in our budget to spend on wine anyway. I know that my son benefited from an etiquette class offered at his fraternity that covered things like wine/food pairing. However, I also know it bothered him that he really didn’t know anything about gourmet food or fine wine, so he is actually taking a sommelier class!
Dialects are perfectly fine for community interactions, but it’s important to speak in the standard American English understood and respected by all for workplace interactions and social interactions outside the community. Speaking of ending sentences with a preposition, in the Pennsylvania Dutch town where I grew up (had to refrain from saying in the town I grew up in), people always did that. I got teased in college for being a country girl for saying things like, “I’m going to the store. Do you want to come with?”
It seems like an easy fix would be for parents to register their children at the start of the year. You could check a box, either “I would like to learn proper English, please correct me”, or “I am comfortable speaking the way I do, no correction please.” and then the teachers could act appropriately.
You bring something “out of habit”?
What if you bring something trashy or something that represents more of a burden to the host than anything? Does that then force the host to also tell themselves “Well, it’s the thought that counts”?
And, when you bring something “out of habit”, what really is the depth of that thought or consideration?
You can get that from a book, too. There are several. I got one of them and read it. Frankly, I think my Mother had read the same one.
It seems to me that the person you quoted brings a host gift as a matter of personal custom in order to be considerate, perhaps as a result of the poster’s upbringing. Your entire post seems to me to be a purposeful attempt to find fault.
As a host, I can’t really imagine telling myself that a particular gift is “trashy.” And unless I had reason to believe a guest was deliberately baiting me for some reason, yeah, I’d think “it’s the thought that counts.” No big price to pay for giving someone the benefit of the doubt.
Sheesh.
I had to laugh at the discussion about a tux. Years ago, there was a kid who posted about his experience at a top college. He was invited by one of the deans to go to some event with alumni at an upscale restaurant. He was told the restaurant required a jacket and tie. He didn’t own either–and never had. He asked his roommate if he could borrow them. Of course, he then had to ask the roommate how to tie the tie.
GFG is so right. Trying to get a job, even as a sales clerk or waiter, without speaking standard English is an uphill task. It’s complete nonsense to think that a teacher is insulting a student by correcting the use of phrases such as “he don’t” or “he done good” or “off of.” We are hurting inner city kids when we don’t teach them to speak standard American English in school.
Maybe you forgot that I’m the one who says a gift is not required.
^^^^No I didn’t forget. I also don’t think it’s “required,” but it’s a very nice and thoughtful thing to do. When I receive a gift, I am ALWAYS appreciative of the gesture. It would never occur to me to criticize the gift as “trashy” or assume that someone who always brings one is insincere by the mere fact that they do this consistently.
JOD,
Not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet about the thoughtfulness of those who choose to bring a hostess appreciation gift for whatever reason. No gift is “trashy”. It may not be one’s taste but YES, its the thought that counts. Just as you seem to think that teaching someone to gut their own fish or weed your garden may he a thoughtful way of educating or including them in the meal process. We may not agree, but the constant punching at people who find a hostess gift kind is getting old.
JOD- No it isn’t. White meat or dark meat, white wine is typically consumed with chicken. Bottom line in wine drinking is: drink what you like. That said, if someone is serving poultry (chicken/turkey), bring a white wine. Heavier foul like duck can be paired with a light or possibly medium red. Personally I prefer red wine and will drink it with fish, foul or chocolate, but if I am eating at a guest’s home, I will typically ask what they like (red or white) and/or what they are serving. Often I have been known to bring one of each (red/white).
You know what? Maybe students and parents who don’t like respecting social conventions should live wherever social conventions are not practiced (if such a place exists). Why are so many people on this thread apologizing to future students who may be asked to learn a thing or two about the ways of polite society **for their own good, ** actually? Why are so many people dreaming up ways to contort convention so as to accommodate to people not acquainted with the way civilized people behave?
This is bizarre! Call me hopelessly traditional, I don’t care.
Bravo, epiphany. Let them gut fish eat cake. >:P
…but not eat “foul,” jym 
Or at least with the right wine. Maybe mead.
Maybe where you live. Not where I live.