<p>Alexandre,</p>
<p>I agree with you... to a point. Perhaps I misrepresented the situation. There is indeed an income range (generally the mid to upper-middle class) that doesn't benefit sufficiently from need-based financial aid because they make too much money, yet still makes too little money to send kids to elite private schools without noticing a significant dropoff on disposable income.</p>
<p>However, there is a largely incorrect notion out there - one that is especially predominant in states such as California that have top-tier public institutions - that a public school will always be cheaper than an elite private. Even in the cases of those in the mid to upper-middle class income range, one can never say this for sure without comparing the financial aid packages of both.</p>
<p>Gentle,</p>
<p>You seem to have a rather distorted view of Northwestern's reputation. It's not Stanford but it's no Pepperdine either. Northwestern's peer assessment score is a respectable 4.4. If I am not mistaken, UCLA's is 4.3. Pepperdine's is probably like 2.9 though I don't know what it is exactly. Northwestern has top-5 journalism, communication, and business schools, top-10 music & law schools, a top 20 med school, and 4 top-10 engineering departments..etc. In terms of students' caliber:</p>
<p>Northwestern's stats: SAT verbal scores over 700 51%, SAT math scores over 700 63%, ACT scores over 30 68% </p>
<p>Pepperdine's stats: SAT verbal scores over 700 10%, SAT math scores over 700 13%, ACT scores over 30 24% </p>
<p>(For your reference: Stanford's stats: SAT verbal scores over 700 70%, SAT math scores over 700 74%, ACT scores over 30 72% </p>
<p>Berkeley's stats: SAT verbal scores over 700 30%, SAT math scores over 700 47%, ACT scores over 30 N/R) </p>
<p>Northwestern's students are of noticeably higher caliber than Pepperdine's. I really don't understand your insistence of putting the two the same.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, finally you know how it feels like when people put down your school as many of you do with Cal and Michigan. I personally believe Northwestern is an awesome university (top 15...possibly top 10), but many on this forum, yourself included, have a habit of completely disrespecting elite state schools, claiming that they aren't top 20 universities.</p>
<p>Alexandre,</p>
<p>Where did I ever say Michigan/Berkeley isn't top 20? You mixed me up with someone.</p>
<p>Ooooppsss...sorry. At any rate, like I said, I personally think Northwestern is an amazing school. But I am pretty sure that somebody must have angered G&S to get him to write what he did. Trust me, I feel his anger sometimes.</p>
<p>And students who get need-based aid (the only kind of aid H,P,S,Y and M give) come from families with family incomes below $80,000. There is a huge gap in there. A California student with a family income of say $110,000 have to pay $20,000 to attend Cal and $50,000 to attend H,P,S,Y and M. Which would that student be able to afford?</p>
<p>My parents income is above $100,000. I received $18, 000 in aid from Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Whats up?</p>
<p>Kalidescope, Dartmouth is not H,P,S,M and Y is it? And there are cases when students get some aid. But even with $18,000, Dartmouth will cost you roughly $30,000/year. Cal or Michigan will cost an in-stater $20,000/year, and in-staters who get into Dartmouth will probably get some money from Michigan and Cal, knocking their tuition to well under $15,000/year. There is a significant difference. </p>
<p>At any rate, for out of staters who come from lower income families, the Ivies make sense since they provide education at a better price (since they meet most financial needs), but to in-staters of middle-income and uper-middle income, elite publics provide equal education at a better price.</p>
<p>No problem, Alexandre. FYI, I just found that the med school admit rates for Northwestern's premeds (first-time applicants) have been between high 70s to low 80s% in the past 3 years, much higher than national average of 50%. NU doesn't prescreen/precertify applicants to discourage/stop weaker premeds from applying like some schools do. I think a good med school placement rate (without prescreening) is another good indicator of a quality undergrad program.</p>
<p>That is excellent indeed. Michigan is at about 60%. It was in the 70s% and even low 80% until a couple of years ago, but it has dropped in the last couple of years. Like Northwestern, Michigan does not pre-screen.</p>
<p>Just a friendly reminder that ad hominem attacks are not allowed on College Confidential, and will result in the temporary or permament suspension of the account of abusers. </p>
<p>Moderator Trinity</p>