What surprised you most about the college process?

Parents Forum
41

<p>I’ve been surprised at how there are not meaningful scholarships for the average kid. Sure, there’s stuff for the super achiever – but a more typical kid is typically out of luck. Or, if there is a scholarship awarded, it is small – like $500 or $1000. That’s a lot of money except in the college world! </p>

<p>I’m also surprised at how tough it is for the kids who are not at the top of the class. You can be smart, fun, thoughtful, hard working and creative . . . and a B student . . . and be SOL for many colleges.</p>

42

<p>Marian and rockvillemom, I know the school district to which you belong and the graduation rates and income levels for African-American and Hispanic students trail that for white and Asian kids at every high school. The AA and Hispanic kids are overidentified as being special needs, are less likely to graduate (even though your school system boasts high graduation rates), are more likely to receive school lunch, are less likely to take Algebra in 8th or any of the other 'key’s that your superintendent identified as being important for college success. Also, there is frequent mention here of a high school magnet. That magnet has few AA kids in it. And, as Shrinkrap mentioned, most of the minority kids do go to college, go to the cc, maybe the instate public or HBCUs. </p>

<p>What I think is that when a minority kid gets accepted at a top school, people say it’s because they’re minority-- whether or not they know. Many moons ago, my sister went to an ivy. She was always the top student in our class, had won piano awards and was a year ahead in school. Her SAT was very high-- it would now be an 800 verbal. I still remember our neighbor-- a bit of a drunk with 4 daughters who were not particularly bright in school-- saying my sister was accepted because of race. That’s what people say-- but it is rarely true. </p>

<p>One of my kids was not accepted at a tippy top need-blind lac and I insisted it was because of her SAT. The next year, one of the white kids from her high school was accepted with lower SATs and gpa. (Naviance) There was no huge hook that we know of although the student was an ok athlete. (So was my kid.) So does that mean the student was accepted <em>because</em> she was white or did they just want her? Two white students with lower SATs/gpas were accepted at a top midwest uni-- again, should I assume it was <em>because</em> they were white? To be honest, I don’t know why any of those kids were accepted but obviously, the schools wanted them. It is very hard to know for certain why a kid is accepted or not-- even the kid himself doesn’t know. (So I would ignore silly boasting.)</p>

43

<ol>
<li>I was surprised by how early one needs to start thinking ahead about the process and how late my kids’ high school gives out information. Our first “college information night” was this past week. The handout oh-so-helpfully informed us that juniors should take the SAT in January, March, or May of junior year. In other words, that our kid should already have taken the SAT. </li>
</ol>

<p>Thank heaven we found this out from someone else in time to sign our daughter up for the March test (it was too late for the January test that somehow most of her classmates knew they were supposed to take). </p>

<ol>
<li>I was surprised at how ubiquitous, and simultaneously meaningless, AP courses have become. I can’t see how an AP course can be the equivalent of a college course when it is given to high school sophomores without any prerequisites. Isn’t the idea that college courses in, say, US History assume a level of knowledge a kid would have acquired taking high school history? But the AP courses are not taken as a follow-up to the basic course–they are in place of the basic course. That makes so little sense to me.</li>
</ol>

<p>But because of my lack of understanding of APs, and my lack of realization that colleges expect kids to be taking LOTS of them starting junior or even sophomore year, I didn’t expect my kid to take them. I don’t know why her school counselor didn’t advise her that her courseload lacked the rigor that selective colleges look for. He had her sophomore PSATs to give him a clue of where she might be headed.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I was flabbergasted at the way costs have increased. I had in my head that our local public might run around $15K/year and that a private school would be on the order of $30K. After all, that was already a good 3x what my school cost, so that seemed like a reasonable guesstimate. And that’s what we’d been saving towards.</p></li>
<li><p>I was very surprised at the method used to determine “need” and the fact that by these methods, my family has no need, and I was amazed that no one at the high school college night stressed the fact that you can get a rough estimate of your EFC before you make your kid’s list of colleges. No wonder people get blindsided.</p></li>
</ol>

44

<p>

Perhaps they are not that “super” in the first place. And that surprises me, too.</p>

45

<p>I, like reply #24, 28 and 40, was perplexed (and dismayed) at the seemingly arbitrary nature of acceptance. My S and D1 had essentially identical stats. Close class rank (same percentage of HS class), identical SAT total (S higher in M, D in V), similar SAT II’s, very similar EC’s and basically the same classes. (We live in a small town with one HS. So the top students all take the same classes.) College A, B, C.-- S was accepted at A, waitlisted at B and denied at C. D1 was waitlisted at A, denied at B, and accepted at C. Go figure!</p>

<p>Another surprise is just how much some edge (URM, athelete, etc.) makes a difference.
A classmate of D1’s (way lower rank and SAT’s than D) was accepted at A (same A as above) even though he was not top ranked in the class and was not even on honor role most (any?) semesters. He is URM, although both of his parents are doctors. He ended up at Oberlin, even though he applied after the deadline application date at their urging.</p>

<p>Another classmate of D got into Stanford (w/ lower SAT’s and rank than my D.) She is URM. Her dad is a PhD professor. (My D did not apply to Stanford) And another D classmate got into MIT. Again, her rank and SAT’s were lower than my D’s. She was a swimmer. (Again, my D did not apply to MIT) </p>

<p>I see an extreme elitism associated w/ many schools. Yet I have seen, anecdotally, that there are so many exceptions. The 3 students I mentioned above do not have 2300, 2200 or maybe even 2100 SAT’s. None of them were val or sal in their hs class. </p>

<p>So you do not have to be perfect, or near, to get into the Ivy’s, MIT, Stanford, etc. Likewise, you could have exemplary credentials and be denied from these same schools.</p>

<p>It’s a crap shoot.</p>

46

<p>As a student I probably shouldn’t have been surprised by anything, but I was surprised by how little test scores actually mattered. I thought test scores were going to be super important (which is why I studied so much for my ACTs) and they just aren’t. People go to Michigan with 27s and 28s, and people get rejected with 32s. Never would have imagined.</p>

<p>I was surprised to find out how many people do community service. I was not surprised to find out how many people did it purely for an advantage in college admissions (more or less… everyone). I was surprised to find out that I had to put the number of hours of community service. I did 1 hour so I could claim I did community service, and ended up just not putting it when I found out I had to put a number of hours.</p>

<p>I was surprised to find out that anyone would go travel to visit a college. Especially surprised to find out people would go visit HYPSM+ (get in first… visit if you can’t make a decision, just seems logical to me but…). </p>

<p>Actually in college, I was surprised to see how many out of state kids there are. Surprised by the fact that it seems like 80% of them come from New York. It’s not like there aren’t any decent colleges in New York. </p>

<p>I was surprised by how expensive a meal plan is. They’re really damn expensive. I guess that’s not really about admissions though.</p>

47

<p>actually so far went in this time with our eyes wide open, 6 years ago we did not have a clue. currently D’s classmates are shocked of their rejections (like we were with our first D) and i feel so far even though we still did very poorly on the predictions we are not shocked. we expected surprises, good and bad.</p>

48

<p>

</p>

<p>That was the attitude I tried to take during this whole crazy process, and it served me well. S got in Chicago (surprise!), but was waitlisted/rejected at Tulane/GWU (surprise again!).</p>

<p>Although I knew it in theory, I was surprised at how comforting it felt to have a few early acceptances as the RD process slowly unfolded.</p>

49

<p>Quote:
-I just want to know that with all of these super kids why haven’t we cured cancer yet?</p>

<p>-Perhaps they are not that “super” in the first place. And that surprises me, too.</p>

<p>A lot of them went to Wall St. Already in the 80’s, science community complained about brain drain to financial industry. We now know what those super smarts brought on us.</p>

50

<ol>
<li><p>I am surprised at both how competitive and how successful rich public schools can be. I knew this world existed in the private school system, but I had no idea how poorly my school fared (even the one I transferred to) in the grand scheme of things. Students who live in the suburbs of DC and Washington (the affluent, white suburbs I should say) have a completely different educational experience than those of us in rural or urban schools.</p></li>
<li><p>I am surprised at how holistic admissions can be. Although I am an excellent student, I am nothing traditionally “special” at the schools I applied to (sub-25% acceptance rates). I was pleasantly surprised that my non-educational merits - i.e., the consideration of what I have overcome given my family situation and socioeconomic status - were taken into account for admissions purposes.</p></li>
<li><p>I am surprised that so many people think being a URM means being a shoo-in anywhere, or that affluent URMs are unfairly benefiting from the process. It doesn’t make sense to me. If “affirmative action” (i.e., as used on this board - admissions boost toward URM students) truly provides an admissions boost for URM students, why aren’t a) more URM students applying, b) colleges having a higher percentage of URM students, and b) fewer white and Asian students being accepted? The “affirmative action” is an issue, I agree; it is not this monstrous program that the people on this board seem to think it is.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m surprised how little people seem to know about the college admissions process. At the range of schools generally considered on CC, admissions is holistic. And yet when someone - anyone - gets rejected with a higher SAT score/GPA than someone else, suddenly it’s as if all hell has broken loose. SAT and GPA scores are a factor, but they are by no means the most important factor. What about college admissions policies isn’t clear about that particular fact?</p></li>
<li><p>I’m surprised at the people who think being low-income is a cure-all for financial aid, or that low-income students can go (and pay for) anywhere they please, or that low-income students really have options, or even that being an HYPS competitive low-income student is somehow desirable.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m surprised that the “college admissions race” actually exists, and is not necessarily just limited to affluent suburban public and private schools. I didn’t realize that students actually participated in activities because it would look good on an application.</p></li>
</ol>

51

<p>I would like to say something about the folks complained about wealthy and privileged URM’s “gaming the system.”</p>

<p>Blame that on colleges. They get to improve federal stats then without spending money. They DO have a good idea of who is needy and who isn’t (activities and zip codes are usually good indicators) and they are making that call.</p>

<p>I get uncomfortable when people complain about URM’s and not the super wealthy who do pretty much call the shots for their kids.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: Mother of one kid with the worst demographic: Middle-class white girl from Long Island interested in the Humanities and needing FA. Not URM status.</p>

<p>I was most surprised at the idea that for us safeties/matches/reaches mattered little. Both kids (other boy) got into reaches and rejected and waitlisted at some matches and safeties. I would do it differently now and just have one true safety and all the rest all the schools they really liked instead of the “tiered” approach.</p>

<p>But we were very lucky. Both got into #1 school with FA (need-based.)</p>

52

<p>I think people don’t realize that kids who apply to 15+ schools actually starting to hurt the chances of getting in on a whole. They don’t seem to understand that every school knows that they will not get 100% acceptances, but if the pool expands so are the chances that a safety is no longer a safety because there are limited spots.</p>

<p>That to me is the surprise. It is the fact that with every yr kids are applying to more and more colleges. I read that in 08 the avg kid applies to 10 colleges, now it is up to 12. Conversely even in the NYT this yr they said that acceptance rates for many universities have declined. This only makes more sense, and the cycle will continue because now the illusion of a safety is brought up to a match and a match is brought up to a reach due to the rates.</p>

53

<p>The thing that surpises me most is how much information everyone seems to “know” about everyone else’s situation. Do parents and students actually sit around and bemoan that some other kid got something “better” for no apparent reason? Seems petty. I also wonder if people are self-reporting the full story, and how many of the “facts” are overblown as stories get passed around town.</p>

<p>We have never told anyone the amount of scholarship S2 got, except to say that it was merit, and it was “enough to allow him to attend” the university he’s attending. The reason I’ll say it’s merit vs. need-based is because 1) it’s true and 2) S2 EARNED the scholarships by working very hard in high school, and I think he deserves the emotional credit of knowing it was worth it in his case. We’ve told him not to talk to other students or his friends about his financial situation. It’s nobody’s business.</p>

54

<p>I actually think it is no different now than it was back in our day…it existed then, and it exists now.</p>

<p>The only difference I see from now and then is how much more the grandparents are into bragging rights. My Mom lives in an adult neighborhood (55+) and she laughs as she sees her friends drive around with college stickers on their car. She also had 2 of her friends come over to her house asking how our DS and DD got in their colleges and their grandchildren didn’t (both are very popular colleges for OOS in NJ). My Mom who is very laid back, relayed the stories to me and said “what is an EC, weighted gpa, and Superscore? Am I suppose to know what they mean?” When grandparents know that much, than you have very involved people, who need to get another life. The funniest is one grandparent went off and bought an RV because they intend to attend all of the football games at the kids college…THE KID IS NOT A FOOTBALL PLAYER or ATHLETE. Can you imagine that poor child come football season?</p>

55

<p>I think my son’s approach to the process was the pleasant surprise. He goes to a pretty good private high school. Out of a class of 160 students 20% will go to top colleges/universities, historically the school has 30 or so NMF every year.</p>

<p>He has a close circle of friends who will be attending high profile schools (Stanford, Berkeley, Penn, U of Chicago) but his search centered on small LACs that frankly I had never heard of before.</p>

<p>He really seems to know what kind of school would be a good fit for him. I was impressed with his thought process.</p>

56

<p>Nothing surprises me but so much of the process disappoints me (and this coming from a parent whose child has already been admitted to some top schools and expects further good news):</p>

<p>Grades don’t matter that much, except when they do. Class rank is important, but it’s not important if your school doesn’t rank, except that we really can’t tell how good your grades really are because your school doesn’t rank.</p>

<p>Test scores really aren’t as important as a generation ago, except when they are.</p>

<p>We want passion and a depth of achievement in EC’s except that, for this girl, she hasn’t really broadened herself beyond (insert passionate activity here.)</p>

<p>We rely on self-reported recitations of community service hours and employment hours that, when carefully examined, defy any reasonable probability of being remotely accurate.</p>

<p>We want killer essays, but we can tell if your essay is “too good.” A typo in your essay won’t kill you, unless we wanted to reject you in which case it will provide justification.</p>

<p>The one part of the application that can be completely outsourced is the essay yet some schools say the essay is critically important.</p>

<p>The fact that you haven’t had to “overcome” something makes us doubt whether we want you, even if your failure to “overcome” is based on A) the good fortune not to have become an orphan or B) the reality that you actually prepared for life’s speed bumps prior to getting in the car.</p>

<p>We take a holistic approach really means, we accept and reject whomever we feel like on that particular day.</p>

<p>The entire admissions process at the top end is so haphazard as to defy an substantially rational explanation (other than: There is no rational explanation.) As that haphazardness has created a cottage industry of test preparers, consultants, editors, etc. that further drains strapped families who are led to believe that their children cannot have success without the extreme levels of help being offered - for a price.</p>

<p>Yale can justify admitting (early!) the lowest ranked of the quadruplets (outside the top 5%) from a public high school with a less than stellar academic status and look at all of us with a straight face.</p>

<p>That between the seats reserved for legacies and donors and the seats reserved for the “disadvantaged”, the admissions rates for the middle class achievers are a small fraction of the aggregate admission rate.</p>

<p>That elite schools steadfastly refuse to compete for the best students by:</p>

<ul>
<li>Awarding aid based on merit; and</li>
<li>Admitting students earlier than March or April.</li>
</ul>

57

<p>swdad1: As I mentioned in an earlier post, S2’s handling of the whole process was what impressed me the most as well. His maturity and level headedness were extraordinary. I think many parents for the first time get to watch their kids handle a major life decision; perhaps it is worth all the hassle to see the young’uns step-up and grow-up.</p>

58

<p>

</p>

<p>Great point. People who have money saved to pay for college or can afford to be “full pay” are lucky. They have a safety net (their kids can go to college at places where they don’t get FA), but people from low-income families don’t have that (and thus are actually much more restricted in their college choices. URM or not.</p>

59

<p>speihei said "That elite schools steadfastly refuse to compete for the best students by:</p>

<ul>
<li>Awarding aid based on merit;"</li>
</ul>

<p>I don’t see how this is a <em>refusal</em> to compete for the best. To me it seems like a <em>desire</em> to compete for the best. Can you clarify this for me? Thanks.</p>

60

<p>“I don’t see how this is a <em>refusal</em> to compete for the best. To me it seems like a <em>desire</em> to compete for the best. Can you clarify this for me? Thanks.”</p>

<p>People will often take a full ride at their state flagship than go to HYPSM+.</p>

<p>Also, what’s up with everyone commenting on AA and URMs? The only time I ever hear anything about it is on AA threads here, and they get a lot activity for 2 days then die. If this is a frequent topic of discussion amongst you and your friends and such you have weird friends.</p>