^All those are good as realizations of the need to work on fixing the underlying problems. I assume he will be taking Physics in the Spring? A word of warning: Physics will kick your butt. Having taken AP Physics in HS will not necessarily save you. He needs to tackle it like a linebacker. Hit the ground running and never let up. Students have profound problems with the most basic of concepts and if they don’t get those concepts under their belt early on, they will be fighting a tremendous battle.
^^ Yes, he will be taking physics, and he’s independently said he knows he has to hit it hard. He took AP Physics in HS, but didn’t do well on the exam. I told him not to sweat it because he’d need to take it again in college anyway, and the value of AP Physics in HS was just being exposed to the material so he was ready to actually drink from the firehose that is college physics vs. just completely drown in it; now he knows that prior exposure <> “easy course.” We are strongly encouraging him to at least replace the statics class he was planning on taking next semester (a semester early, because he has room in his schedule since he placed out of English) with an easy elective class.
This sounds like a normal part of the growth experience, on leaving home and entering a new environment. Hopefully, he will think about his conduct and then try harder, with the help of tutors and counselors. If he turns it around, he will emerge with pride in his accomplishments and enhanced self confidence, not to forget a great life lesson. There is risk in this kind of perserverance, of course, but it if you call it quits, what kind of message would that send? Send him back with love and support.
Here’s a situation to consider. Students need to enter college with the capacity to shift into a higher gear to handle the riggers of full time college studies. If a student excels in high school but at the cost of studying 40 hours a week, then he may not have the extra gear. (BTW-some kids love studying and have plenty of extra gears, however some do not). This doesn’t mean that your child cannot become an engineer, and excel at it. but it will likely take longer than four years for him to get out of college. My opinion-Save the scholarship go to CC.
My son just completed his first semester in college. He had a tough schedule that includes Calculus III, physics with calculus and computer science. He is also an athlete. We always asked about grades, and he was very honest. Things were good in every class except comp sci. He just did not understand the material. So I did the parent thing, suggesting office hours and tutoring. He did that, too. Finished with a C+ in the class, and promptly announced that he would never take another comp sci class again. That meant he had to drop his math major to a minor, but that is all right with us. He picked up a second major, finance. He also strives on structure, but he has had to learn what will work for him.
Your son needs to look at his schedule, and he needs to lighten the load just a bit so he can help to increase his GPA. Put off statics a semester, because it is a tough class. He needs a fun, easier elective in his schedule. If anything, for the mental break. Also, encourage him to go to office hours even if he understands everything going on in the class. This will give him the chance to build a relationship with the professor. My son had to miss several calculus classes because of team departures for meets. He went to every office hours session with the professor. In the end, his dedication was rewarded with an A in the class. He also found out that he really liked the way she taught, and he plans to take another class with her in a year or so.
Some great advice here, just admiring the effort put in by others to be helpful!
Great advice - Get one of the gen ed’s out of the way. Statics is a lot of work, and he really should have physics first. I teach both of those courses, and I would never suggest a student (especially a struggling one) take both simultaneously.
I don’t agree that a student who had to spend 40 hours studying in high school doesn’t have the ‘extra gear’ to make it in college. My daughter had high grades in high school because she sat at the kitchen table and studied several hours each night. I often came down on a Sunday morning to find her studying before going off to a game. It’s just her way, and she is slow and plodding. However, she certainly wasted a lot of time while studying - snap chats and texts and youtube. She’s found that extra time needed in college by studying smarter, using her time better. She’s also found the office hours and extra study sessions helpful, and those weren’t available in high school.
One thing my daughter has really enjoyed about college is the other students who are at her level. She can find others struggling as she might be but also others who can help her learn something or who she can help. At a community college, those same experiences might not be available as many students commute or there might not be TA help.
When I went to CC years ago, we had study groups and a tutoring center. I was frequently helping other students. Let’s try to do this without bashing the community colleges.
I just wanted to add a positive story. My nephew coasted through HS, wasn’t really challenged and received a merit scholarship to the U of Louisville for engineering. He was in the five year Masters of Engineering program. The first semester he took a very challenging course load, didn’t have good study habits, did not do well and lost his merit scholarship. Fortunately, my brother and sister-in-law could afford to pay full freight and he was able to continue at Louisville. After the first semester, my nephew developed better study habits, balanced his workload and, ultimately, earned back his scholarship. He graduated with honors and is now working for a German firm and loves his job. I guess what I am saying is at you can’t know how a student is going to do based on the first semester. Maybe this is the wake-up call he needs to work smarter and harder.
sylvan8798, others were suggesting that a community college would be easier to get a better gpa, and I was offering that isn’t necessarily so. CC are different than a residential college. A student who isn’t doing well at a residential program is not automatically going to do better at a CC because the courses aren’t easier, the resources may not be there for extra study sessions, TAs and faculty may not be on campus full time. More students are part time and have to work, so while students can form study groups, do they? The logistics are harder than for say 5 students who all live in the same dorm to get together at 9 pm. My friend’s daughter goes to a residential college but cannot do study groups at night. It costs her opportunities because the other students prefer to study or meet at night.
My kids would not do as well at a community college and living at home. The atmosphere just isn’t the same.
^There are positives and negatives to both, although I agree that getting a better gpa at a CC is not a given. Just not for the reasons you describe.
So, maybe I am misunderstanding something, or maybe different schools do things differently … but my understanding was that courses taken at CC transfer credit, but not the grade. So, for example, if he takes a class at CC during the summer, it can make his schedule at his university easier by “offloading” a course, but it won’t affect his university GPA. Am I wrong about that?
You have to ask his college what they allow and what would transfer. Ask before he signs up for anything.
A basic question: why does he want to study engineering? Is this a long-time intense interest or did he figure this was a practical major that could lead to a well-paying job? What are his natural aptitudes and interests? I can understand that it is not yet time to throw in the towel for negative reasons, but are there any positive reasons for switching to an area that suits him better?
@runningmom2 – I haven’t read all of the responses, but I am heartened at the number of them. It should be encouraging to know that you and your son are not alone in this experience. I copied below a partial response to a post that appeared on the Penn State forum (http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/17680850/#Comment_17680850). The response was written by a junior encouraging a “Previously-straight-A” freshman not performing as well as hoped/anticipated. You can pick and choose points (maybe your son finds group work helpful), but there may be some “nuggets” that resonate. Good luck!
@Fischerman said
@twoinanddone
The good CC do have resources to help STEM students.
As for Study Groups, that mostly depends on the student and who they make friends with in class.
IMO a big issue with these classes comes down to the way the professor tests. My Calc 1 prof had study guides that mirrored the tests perfectly. While my Calc 2 professor told us every problem in the book was homework. Consequently there was no way to study for his class. IMO getting good professors, or at least professors who give “good” tests, is vital to STEM.
I can’t bring myself to comment on this except to say I find it highly amusing.
I will say that as an EE myself who went to the same large university DS attends now, I’m not sure I would do as well as I did 30 years ago with the way things are structured now. I never had a multiple choice test on technical material… DS reports that all of his tests in all of his technical classes are multiple choice. Profs would post homework and test solutions outside their classrooms, or put them in the library for students to copy; DS reports homework for calc and chemistry were online, with no detailed solutions provided. So, back in the day, partial credit was available; now, it is not. Back in the day, it was easy to access the information about what you did wrong on a test or homework (stop by and pick up the solution set from the box outside his office or copy it off of the set that was posted on the wall…); now, to get that info, you have to go to office hours and specifically ask for it.
I always assumed profs would try to mix it up on tests, so I always (and have encouraged DS to) did as many different types of problems as I could find. Schaum’s outlines were my best friend; I’d try to solve the problems, and if I got stuck, I had a detailed solution to look at. Can’t tell you how many times that paid off because a problem just like what I’d studied ended up on the test. Having said that, yes, the prof can make a huge difference at least in terms of his/her attitude toward the students. When we inquired about whether DS had gone to office hours for chemistry at all, he said, “Well, the prof really didn’t want students to come to office hours. He said before we came to office hours we should post our question to the online forum he created for the class and see if anyone else in the class could answer us; only if we posted and nobody answered would he help us in office hours.” I never had any prof tell me anything remotely like that! I spent plenty of time in office hours with questions about homework or how I could better prepare for tests, and my profs were all encouraging and willing to help. Not all of them were warm and friendly, but they didn’t make you feel like you shouldn’t bother them. I told him I can’t imagine that if he’d gone to the prof after not doing well on the first test asking for the correct answers so he could figure out what he’d done wrong that the prof would have refused … and then he showed me a review of the prof from this semester on ratemyprofessor that said, “After failing the first test I went to office hours for help and was just told that if I didn’t do better on the next test I should drop the class and retake it in the spring.” So, here’s a prof who apparently really doesn’t care about helping his students do better even if they’re worth to put in the extra effort – he sees his job only as putting together tests and homework and letting the students figure it out for themselves. As a parent, this pisses me off, because my kid could take an online class for free and get the same experience! Why the heck am I paying his salary? Yes, there were obviously things my DS can/should have done to do better this past semester, but yes, a really heinous prof can make a big difference, and I don’t doubt that it was at least part of the issue with his D+ in chemistry…
^^^^ Runningmom, yes, today’s large STEM publics cannot be compared to the same schools of the “olden days.” I, too, attended a large public flagship and things were so different. My son reports exactly as your son did: math and science courses with multiple choice exams and NO partial credit. If you do not arrive at one of the given choices after a lengthy attempt, you may have to start over completely or forfeit all credit for the question. The exams are also designed to provide answer choices that result from small - but the most common -mistakes, so you may have been almost entirely right, and see an answer choice that matches, but unfortunately it’s wrong and again, no partial credit. Of course, all the students are in the same boat and so the curve can partially correct this, but I do wonder what these kids are really learning when access to professors and explanations is limited at these large institutions.