I agree - definitely not healthy, which is why I will have a sit down with D21 before she goes through recruitment in January (her univ does not do fall recruitment) about her expectations versus reality. She’s curious about the process, has witnessed her sister go through it and sees the close relationships my husband and I still have with our Greek “brothers & sisters” 30 years after we’ve graduated. It may not be for her, but that will be her decision.
Based on my own experience in Greek life and my older daughter’s experience, most of the disgruntled-ness about not getting picked for a certain sorority (or fraternity) comes from the prospective student only wanting to be picked by what they perceive to be the most popular organizations, and their unwillingness to “settle” for what they perceive is a lesser group.
(Honest question ) What would create the perception that certain sororities are lesser - lower GPA, less nice living quarters, lower dues, less selectivity… ? Is there some sort of official ranking? In other words, how do undergraduates figure out the “pecking order”?
I know some sororities require recommendations from alumnae, which I suppose they give after an interview, which would require finding out who these alumnae are in your area and reaching out to them --this process would clearly be very selective.
Living quarters and dues don’t usually have much to do with ranking, unless one chapter has notable worse housing than the rest. Selectivity at some campuses (especially in the South) can be tied in with family connections, social/economic status, etc. GPAs matter in some of those places, too. But looks make a big difference in sorority systems everywhere. It’s true at MIT, Podunk State, and everywhere in between.
Certainly! It’s the same concept as free school breakfast/lunches, heated/air-conditioned class-rooms: Education at any level is NOT just a “cerebral” thing, educators also need to create an environment which secures “readiness” to learn (e.g., “physical” well-being).
So… offering guaranteed on-campus housing is a core function, as it enables non-commuter students of any economic background to walk to/from classes, and for all students have equal housing cost.
Given that this maybe the first time for many to “fend for their own”, out of state, for months at a time, I’m also in favor of requiring on-campus housing for freshman to foster social bonding, while there is still some minimal level of support/guidance/supervision through RAs.
PS: There are some countries (e.g. Germany) where “residential” universities are the exception. However, that is also due to a completely different system of higher education. Rather than everyone joining and progressing as the same four-year “class of”, higher education is free, student passes are available for public transportation, and there is no reason for a hard limit on how many years one might take pursuing your degree (as long certain minimums are satisfied annually).
Consequently, it’s quite common for University courses/lectures to have a wide range of students of all kind of ages and family situations, including very many commuters that didn’t attend University right out of “High School”, and/or are part-time because they already have a little career, and/or even started a family.
So in that scenario, the one cost one might encounter is have to secure their own housing (if needed), although some “Student Unions” offer affordable options. If money gets tight one year, it’s perfectly fine to reduce the course load and instead focus on earning extra money.
Graduation is not a 4-year-race with mandated/marketed outcome, but rather a measure of competence, whenever that might have been achieved.
My D21 just went through the process. Neither myself or her father were a part of Greek life in college, so it was all brand new to us. My daughter became curious and told us if she made it through she was paying for it. She signed up and paid the registration fees on her own and told us after the fact.
Needless to say I learned a lot that week and still find some aspects to be evasive for sure. There is a ‘ranking’ at her school and you just kind of hear about it word of mouth on campus. My daughter wasn’t concerned about ranking, she was looking for the right fit. She’s extremely happy and so far seems to be able to manage her academic responsibilities as well as her sorority meetings and events.
I got a taste of greek life this past weekend during family weekend. I had a great time and really enjoyed all the boys and girls I met and the parents. All I know is my daughter really found her stride after joining her sorority, so for that I am pleased for her. She has plenty of friends who are not in greek and others who are in different sororities. She says no one cares about if you are or are not in greek. At her school they do not give any weight if you are a legacy.
I witnessed something over the weekend that was pretty great. Apparently the sorority has a strict rule that you can not go places alone. We had left a party and my daughter spotted a girl walking by herself. She went up to her and introduced herself and asked here where she was going. We then walked her there and made sure she had friends there to meet up with.
My daughter told me that’s what they are taught to do. Never leave a girl on campus alone at night.
So here’s the part that I find just icky. My daughter’s sorority is a top sorority. I asked her what this meant. She said basically they can just get into more parties. They are also paired with a couple of the top fraternities and often do events together. So weird to me and not my cup of tea. One of her friends is in a different sorority and they went to a party together but her friend couldn’t get in because of her sorority. That is the stuff that makes me cringe. My daughter just said they left and it was no big deal.
We have family members who were active in greek life who actively told their children not to rush. From what I see in my community (college town), I’m not a fan of what I’m seeing/hearing/reading.
Is this the norm? Seems that it is common for fraternities and sororities to start actual intake processes once students get to campus, rather than having students get recommendations etc. before then. Some campuses want intake processes to start only in second semester or second year, since first semester frosh have a lot (academically) on their plate, so that pledging a fraternity or sorority may disrupt their (academic) transition to college.
It varies by campus and region. At the public schools in the SEC & ACC, yes, a lot of the fraternities will recruit over the summer, even if unofficially. There will usually be opportunities in the system for a young man who isn’t looped in for this, but they may not be the most competitive chapters.
In the US, residential college experiences are the minority. While these forums focus on “destination” colleges that most students would have to relocate to (and hence would find it convenient to have on-campus housing for the first year at least), most college students commute to college from wherever they lived before starting college. Doing so is often necessary due to money, family, or work constraints.
What you describe for universities in Germany is common in the US as well once you start looking at colleges other than “destination” ones (e.g. state flagship-level universities and well known private or specialty schools).
Naturally, the number shifts once you include Community Colleges, where typically all students are commuting. And, while I had realized that every college would have whatever percentage of commuter students, I didn’t appreciate the extent.
For schools with second semester rush (or soph Fall rush), ‘dirty’ rushing is a thing for first semester at some schools, where certain students (both men and women) are identified early fall semester and targeted for membership by certain frats/sororities. These students are invited to parties, one on one meetings with house leaders, and other social events well before formal rush starts second semester.
A college may be predominantly commuter, but still have some dorms for the small number of non-local students. For example, most of the CSUs in California are predominantly commuter, but have some dorms for non-local students. Those which are not predominantly commuter tend to be in sparsely populated areas (e.g. Chico, Humboldt, San Luis Obispo, Sonoma, Monterey Bay; San Diego is an exception).
The 26 NPC sororities (the oldest, like Kappa Kappa Gamma, tri Delt) have an agreement to follow certain rule whether there is a physical house on campus, off campus,combo (sorority owns the house, college owns the land), chapter is assigned a dorm or a wing in a dorm, or if there is no house at all. No alcohol, no hazing, no discrimination of membership. These rules are enforced at the local level (by their national organizations). It’s all pretty strict, but that doesn’t mean a group won’t get in trouble on a ski weekend.
My daughter just mentioned to me that 2 students have died at her school already this year. In the dorms. She did say at least at the sorority houses there is an adult living in the house as a house mother, whereas in the dorm the RA might be only 19 years old and has no real power to do anything at the time except write up a report.
Let me try and draw you out a little more to sharpen up where your line is. Examples, unfortunately, will be from MIT, because that’s what I know best.
Phi Beta Epsilon is an MIT fraternity. It’s on the MIT campus, in a building owned by MIT. It has no national affiliation. They do the usual fraternity things, including parties and charity work.
The Burton Third Bombers live on the 3rd floor of the Burton side of the Burton-Connor dorm. It’s (obviously) on the MIT campus, in a building owned by MIT. They also do the usual fraternity things, including parties and charity work. They often are seen wearing fraternity sportswear with the letters BTB on them. Most residents live there all four (or more) years. They have a rush-like process.
Dover Club was a group that lived on the same floor in Baker House, an MIT dorm like Burton-Conner. They were affiliated with a national fraternity, but were waiting to buy a house and move there (which they eventually did) They did the usual fraternity things, including parties and charity work.
Is one or two OK and the other(s) not? And if so, what is the characteristic responsible for letting you draw the distinction?
Which sororities are those? The 26 NPC sororities haven’t been segregated for decades. A house may have done that at a local level but it is not the national policy.
The sororities are going to reflect the make up of the school. If the school only has 10% minority students, they aren’t going to have fully integrated sororities, or marching bands, or student government, or any number of other clubs. The sororities are also competing with the NPHC sororities (traditionally black, often called the Divine Nine), other special interest sorority and fraternities. It is understandably why a black woman may prefer one of the NPHC sororities (her mother/grandmother/sister was a member, her interests and charities align with that experience)
When I look at the pictures of members at the different houses around the country for my house, the pictures from the big schools are mostly white women (sorry Stanford, but it is true), but those from Tufts, WPI, CWRU, CMU, Yale really do reflect their student bodies, with many minority faces and names. At my daughter’s chapter, there were several international students because the school has a lot of international students.
They are also paired with a couple of the top fraternities and often do events together. So weird to me and not my cup of tea. One of her friends is in a different sorority and they went to a party together but her friend couldn’t get in because of her sorority. That is the stuff that makes me cringe. My daughter just said they left and it was no big deal.