When a Parent thinks a child is pushing too hard.

<p>*I have not read all responses, just the original post.</p>

<p>I do understand your concern. My daughter has a schedule very similar to your daughter’s with 5 APs and 2 Dual Enrolled classes at our local college per semester. She is also a varsity athlete in two sports, fall and spring, captain of both teams and competes in another year long club sport that she is being recruited for. With college apps and visits, I urged my daughter to take a lighter load this year, to no avail. I also must tread carefully, lest she interpret my concern as a lack of belief in her ability to handle things on her own. I do think it is too much, but she has had a heavy load like this all through high school, despite my objections. Some kids are just driven and she is one of them. I try not to dwell on it and to be a soft place for to land when the pressure becomes overwhelming to her. And she has meltdowns several times a year, blames me for putting so much pressure on her when in reality it is she who puts pressure on herself. I guess it just comes with the territory when dealing with a Type-A Personality teen! </p>

<p>It sounds to me like your daughter is just as driven and urging her to drop a class or change her schedule will probably not do any good. And it is not like she doesn’t understand what she is geting herself into. I would suggest she at least meet with the guidance counselor at school to go over her schedule. The GC may give her some insight into how the college apps process will affect her workload. At least it will be coming from someone other than you! Best of luck to your daughter and to you!!! Sounds like we are in the same boat…</p>

<p>Yes nysmile. It is who she is.</p>

<p>Back off, mom. </p>

<p>Don’t add to her stress with your “helpful” suggestions. She needed approval from her HS GC to sign up for her schedule- the best thing for you to do is talk to her GC about the added online courses if you think she should change things. You state she has done heavy loads like this successfully in the past- it is the norm for her. No big deal for gifted kids to take 4 or more AP courses. Math/science students thrive on those subjects. Makes sense to take both AP calc and stats at the same time. Adding AP science- logical. Full load, no study hall, again logical. Band- good stress reliever, counts as an EC and easier with each year (you the top level of HS competence by senior year). She sounds organized and capable of handling her load. </p>

<p>Make an appointment for yourself with her HS GC before school starts. Parents can do this for HS students, not like in college. Discuss your concerns. If the school feels she is taking on too much her GC can talk to her (without you) about revising her schedule. Mom interferes with suggestions, she is more likely to take the same advice from professionals.</p>

<p>Most kids would have trouble with such a heavy load but gifted kids often need more than offered to keep from boredom. Your D likely thrives on challenging herself. I could state examples of past kids with similar loads who did well. Some people are assuming the calc and stats will take a lot of time and be difficult- not so for someone with strong aptitude. She will write stronger college essays if she is happy and thriving. Quality, not time spent, on essays counts. The kids that “go for it” instead of backing off from challenges are more competitive for top schools. Let her find her limits instead of putting a glass ceiling on her.</p>

<p>No matter what her grades are she will learn important things about herself that will help her in her future. Her junior year course load and grades will be seen by colleges. If she succeeds in doing very well in all classes this fall she will prove her high caliber, if not she will know her limits. I know from experiences with my son and others’ children how top students end up with a good fit college. The driven girl at Harvard law. The son who doesn’t go for top grades in classes he doesn’t care about (and I know his parents…).</p>

<p>She needs to do this her way, not yours. Let her discussion with her GC or someone with gifted/talented experience in the schools guide her (if her GC is only average it may be a teacher who knows her and her proposed work load). Be thankful she has opportunites to be challenged appropriately instead of being held back from her full potential by a school lacking in the AP classes. BTW- AP classes are only of average-college caliber, they can be easy for someone heading to a top school. Interesting discussion about various calculus situations reported to me by a mom whose D and her friend ranked them for level of difficulty based on experiences- my disagreement in ranking was only that they had no experience with and didn’t count public flagship honors level courses. BTW- it went AP<3rd tier college<flagship<Ivy (I would make flagship honors at least tie with their Ivy rank).</p>

<p>More than enough said. More details on request.</p>

<p>I guess it is time for me to zip it, lock it and put the key in my pocket (at least that is what I tell my little kids…lol) To Wis75…she has been in our school’s GT program (which from what I have researched is a pretty top notch program, about 20 kids out of her Senior Class of around 680…number keeps changing…lol…are in the program) since middle school and she does thrive on a rigor. Thank you all for your replies! Fishy…guess we are in similar situations. Let me know how it goes for you…maybe we can vent together! CS</p>

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I’m not assuming that. I’m assuming AP Stats is sort of a waste of time. It is mathematically about the level of Algebra 2, and just self studied by a lot of the AP commandos on the kid’s side of the website. I’m assuming a kid who aces Calc will be bored to tears, particularly the first smester, and wondering if they could have better spent their time. Now if this were a rigorous calc based Prob and Stats class that would be different. Then I would think it would be tough.</p>

<p>But it looks like the OPs daughter knows what she wants. I’m sure she can handle it, and it does’nt matter anyway, she’s not likely to change her mind.</p>

<p>AP Stats can be lots of fun. Just don’t approach it expecting mathematical rigor.</p>

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<p>That’s a scary schedule to me especially with a goal to ace them all. I won’t encourage my kid to do so. Good luck to OP’s D.</p>

<p>Personally, I do think your daughter is over loading herself. Eight academic classes with band (an incredibly time consuming activity) is way too much in my opinion. Unfortunately, really driven students usually have to burn out before they let go of their crazy course load. My question is, why do you think your daughter is driving herself like this? Has she been told that this is what she needs to do to be competitive for a prestigious school? Is she competing against an older sibling, either to out do them for grades or for attention? Is she socially unsure of herself and finds it easier to be too busy than to nurture relationships? And maybe she is just so driven to be driven. I just hope she doesn’t burn herself out. Good luck and love her for working so hard and not being lazy like many others her age tend to be. </p>

<p>Oh, if she found a boyfriend it might help reduce her course load? :)</p>

<p>I would vote for reducing the workload. </p>

<p>Fall semester is really tough, and students often underestimate the the time required for doing college applications. And let’s face it, the better the application and the better the fall GPA…the better the chance for merit $. </p>

<p>My son became a surprisingly self-motivated and successful student in high school. We reluctantly let him take take a heavy IB load (4HL, 2SL). But when senior year came along and he wanted to jam pack the schedule with a 7th IB course because he had an interested in Biology, we said No. We also talked him out of Marching band. He still had his hand full (including extra fun stuff too, as there should be senior year). He worked diligently on the college apps, but he just barely got them done on time.</p>

<p>Another thing to keep in mind Senior families - it is reallllllly good to have an open block. That was son’s opportunity to do the many things needed with the guidance office. It gets crowded during the short window of time after school. </p>

<p>OP - Be aware that class scheduling might not allow your ideal solution. But a free block would allow time for homework or online class.</p>

<p>Schools seem to vary in the difficulty of particular AP courses. In our HS, Physics C, Calc BC and Gov are considered the hardest courses to do well in. When my kid’s senior schedule was sent home with AP Lit, AP Physics C, AP Calc BC, AP Stat, AP Gov, AP Foreign Language and Research competition class – I called the GC and asked if it was a particularly heavy load given the research competition requirements and college applications. I wanted my kid to drop the foreign language, because I thought Stats would be more helpful with research on future academic interests — but GC said foreign language should stay on – more “impressive” to colleges. So, Stats was dropped.</p>

<p>It was a crazy year – especially the fall. But kid was admitted EA to an HYPMS school (when they all had some form of EA). Received A’s in all courses and 5’s on all AP’s except foreign language…so…for that child…it was the right schedule. </p>

<p>Hope it works out OK for your daughter.</p>

<p>Why is she doing this? What are her reasons? Is it to get into schools, or to learn, or because she is competitive, or what?</p>

<p>This kind of load is not necessary in order to get into good colleges.</p>

<p>I can also tell you that I have read about, and personally have observed, kids who overload with the goal of getting in, or simply because they are in a high-pressure environment, who then face incredible burnout. These kids arrive at college stressed and jaded, and some even lose motivation because their life long goal of “getting in” is meaningless once in.</p>

<p>Some or none of this may apply. But kids who have reasonable senior years tend to enjoy freshman year in college more, I think.</p>

<p>Just another perspective.</p>

<p>The D is gifted- a key fact. At least in the top 5 (or 3)%, very possibly the top 1%, of the population for academic potential. Very different in needs from the typical bright kids who populate the honors/AP classes in HS’s. She apparently has been thriving on heavy loads- let her work up to her capacity, don’t encourage her to go at the majority’s slower pace is the idea. There are those of us who enjoy academics more than many other activities. It is a “reasonable” senior year if she enjoys it. Enjoyment of college may include being able to be immersed in real academics, not just the activities and academics of the typical college student. Now is a good time for her to test herself- if she finds it is too much she will know her limits. It is not what is needed to get into a top college, it is filling her days with challlenge instead of being bored.</p>

<p>Doesn’t matter how gifted she is. There are only so many hours in the day. That’s a ridiculous course load from any perspective, unless the designation AP is meaningless and doesn’t require the homework load that AP courses at other high schools do.</p>

<p>^ Some kids can handle that load easily, and only the mom knows how gifted the D is. I only wonder why some of the courses (if not most) were not taken care of in junior year, e.g., calc BC, through class or self-study.</p>

<p>^Yes, that.</p>

<p>“Doesn’t matter how gifted she is. There are only so many hours in the day. That’s a ridiculous course load from any perspective, unless the designation AP is meaningless and doesn’t require the homework load that AP courses at other high schools do.”</p>

<p>I’m not sure how you can speak for someone else. It would be ridiculous for 99% of the population and myself as well. However, there are kids who are gifted who are also efficient with their time. Keeping a gifted child engaged is challenging. For some, it requires taking on ridiculous course and EC loads that for most of us would be unworkable. I learned to trust my D. She is different from me and can handle way more than I ever could.</p>

<p>^Been there, done that, wrote the article. Stand by my statement regarding time.</p>

<p>Not sure what you mean by “wrote the article” and still don’t know how you can possibly speak for another person and presume so much.</p>

<p>There are two categories of workload connected with AP courses. First, there is the workload necessary to learn the material to the high-5 standard. It is true that a gifted student can handle this easily enough in most cases. Physics C looks to me to be the most challenging course on the list, but it’s manageable if the teacher is very good.</p>

<p>Then there is the workload imposed by the teacher of the AP class. This varies substantially from school to school. Strong time-management skills would not necessarily help with some of these demands. For example, my nephew attended a school where the Calc BC students were all required to show up an hour ahead of school so that in effect 2 class periods could be devoted to Calc BC, on top of the homework assignments for it. AP Lit classes read widely varying numbers of books. Reading can often be enjoyable (and easy for a fast reader), but I’d have to say that a number of the AP Lit books read at our local school were just plain grim (well beyond the average grim-ness of the full AP book list). Then on top of that, there’s the “foo-fraw” factor with the AP Lit teacher. How many writing assignments are there, and of what type? AP Gov–well, I think a good student could learn everything that’s tested in about 8 weeks. But how much extra work is there? Gov is a rather important subject, after all. What about projects for AP Stat? Is the OP’s daughter willing to draw a line at “good enough,” or will she want to do a stand-out job?</p>

<p>Then, there is AP Chemistry. Chemistry is–drum roll, please–an experimental science. This means that there is a real lab in the college courses. The OP’s local high school is probably well set-up for lab work (they seem to have a relatively well-funded school district). Often, connected with the AP labs, there are formal, written lab reports. Depending on the teacher, there can be a <em>lot</em> of formal, written lab reports. I have forgotten how many labs are part of the official AP syllabus. But they are concerned about the ability of the students to gain full credit (at most universities) for a year of chemistry, and this means taking the lab write-ups seriously and hanging on to the AP lab notebook.</p>

<p>Schedules that were apparently less packed than this at QMP’s school led to students staying up to 2 am working. (There were students in this group who had taken Calc BC as high-school freshmen, and AP Chem as sophomores, so there was not an issue of raw talent.) </p>

<p>Overall, I agree with Sop14’s Mom.</p>

<p>Can’t judge what/who you don’t know. We made my daughter not do certain ECs the winter of junior year thinking that she would be way overloaded and fall apart. Of course, the opposite happened - because she wasn’t frenetic crazy busy she was miserable and her grades actually dropped a bit; just the opposite of what we thought.</p>

<p>She’s not entering her sophomore year in college and continues being way too busy and she’s never been happier. Does that mean she never blows up? Of course not, but so does her sister with half the commitments, and so do I and I have no excuse. Speak to your daughter but trust that she knows what works for her.</p>