JustOneDad- You can get a basic feel for the wealth of the student body by looking at the financial aid section of the Common Data Set for the college. I did a quick check of Hamilton College and about 50% of the freshman class received some need based aid. Looking at a less affluent college showed that school gave need based aid to about 75% of the students. Not an exact science but it gives you an idea in terms of socio-economic status.
If anyone here knows how to find more detailed info that let us know!
The less prestigious and the easier to get into the college, the more likely you will get smart goofballs and idiots who work really hard and/or got lots of help.
This is why I stress to my kids to pick a school that they are between 50th and 75th percentile, for a good chance of admittance, but not a school where they are in the top 1%. Barring a significant honors program as an oasis in the knowledge desert.
I went to a non-HYP Ivy, and there was a huge mix in SES. There was not, however, a huge mix of intelligence and knowledge levels. I met a guy who grew up on free and reduced lunches, mom paid under the table, at the Ivy, and we are doing pretty well money and status wise, though the rest of his family is low SES and his parents, siblings,nephews and nieces, and grandniece (ugh) will likely stay that way.
Diversity is difficult - top schools strive for it for the most part, but some ignore more important aspects of it. Schools with poor FA often attract kids with money to burn.
Someone at work was talking about this a couple weeks ago. Mentioned the subtle pressure of hanging with people for whom a $4 coffee and $15 movie tickets was no big deal. One of our college visits kind of rubbed me the wrong way about this too. “[Students] might want to get jobs so you don’t have to ask mom and dad for money to go see the (pro sports team) or take someone special out to a really nice restaurant.” Not “you might want to get a job and an internship to help carry your own weight.”
This is antithetical to our financial philosophy. We hold as an article of faith that our dear children will know from the get go that the bulk of their academic future is in their own control. When they succeed, they’ll know they’ve earned success.
During that process, keeping up with peers who have much spendier habits is going to get real frustrating real fast.
[edit:
I also joke sometimes about having gone to a very preppy school on a redneck diversity program. I was the guy wearing plaid flannel in a sea of Izods. It wasn’t ever an issue, but you felt a little bit on the fringe of respectable society. Meh. /edit]
I went to a high school where most students were from very similar SES - middle (lower middle) class. We had very few very wealthy or poor families. At the time I didn’t think much about it, but looking back it was nice. It meant most students had after school jobs, and we could afford movies and bowling on weekends. There were very few ski trips or family vacations in the Caribbeans. When someone said “let’s do XYZ this weeken,” or “let’s go out for lunch,” most of us didn’t have to worry about if we could afford it or not.
I do think we tend to associate with people who are in the same SES, even if the community is diverse. I know my kids have wide circle of friends, but their closest friends have similar SES as us.
It was considered if it stood out significantly, but in most cases you can find your niche. I go to Northeastern, and while I’ve yet to meet any real “poor” people rather than lower middle class, the spectrum can range quite a bit. I was in the Honors program and so I think I saw a little more SES diversity because a lot of my neighbors in the dorm were on NMF/NHS/merit scholarships and that’s why they were attending. The international students completely dwarfed even the richest domestic students money wise, often clubbing nightly with bottle service, Ubers everywhere instead of the T, fancy cars, incredible off-campus apartments…
I toured Duke summer before senior year thinking it was my dream school, but I noticed my tour guide was very well put together and nicely dressed, and asked her what the students wore on campus. She told me most all girls made an effort to get up early before class to do their hair, make-up, and pick out their Lilly Pulitzer/Vineyard Vines/JCrew/etc. for the day- and that a student would never be caught dead in PJ’s outside of their room. Well, I knew as soon as she said that that Duke was out of the running (didn’t even apply). As someone who’s never worn Lilly/VV and can barely make my way around a curling iron, I just couldn’t see myself fitting in. I dress fashionably, but have never cared about the label, and while I do my hair/make-up it’s not a huge daily undertaking.
So it matters, yes, but not at the forefront of my mind.
The girls Novafan1225 encountered at Duke remind me of some of the girls at the southern high school I graduated from many years ago. They literally put on makeup to go to the mailbox and they were very into name brand clothes. Their mothers encouraged them to go to schools with high SES families because they wanted them to find husbands there. I remember one told me that her mom said that it was just as easy to fall in love with a rich guy as a poor one. They were from what appeared to be the middle to higher end of middle income families, so it surprised me that it would be a goal for them.
I didn’t really think about the SES of other students when my son was applying to schools. I did consider whether or not finances would be tight because I want him to have enough money so he can enjoy himself and be able to take advantage of internships and other opportunities.
I graduated from Duke and I have been to class in my pajamas on several occasions. One must be careful not to assign too much importance to one person’s opinion.
My post is to agree with a poster that mentioned the international students completely dwarfed the domestic kids money wise part. The kids that my kids knew were rich and throw money in excess were from China. Actually we had a thread on that, did you missed it.
For us, it is impossible to avoid that problem. My D is attending an in state flagship which is also considered a public Ivy. The gap between in state and OOS students is huge in SES (and also somewhat academically too). Nevertheless, the school is so big that you can easily find your own peer group. It would be hard to find a matching assigned freshmen roommate in dorm though. Many in state students received significant financial aids to cover part of the $27k in state CoA (it is a need met school) while most of the OOS students are paying $55k out of pocket.
Every state flagship is going to have a coterie of well to do kids, whether it’s a “public Ivy” or not.
Like any group of people, some rich kids will be nice and down to earth and others won’t be. The stereotyping of rich kids on this board is odd. There are plenty of people whose wealth you would never know about.
@DrGoogle I agree that there are many rich foreign kids at US colleges. I objected to your characterization that their parents’ wealth was likely ill-gotten. My 1st cousin is extremely wealthy Chinese industrialist. I saw her when she and her husband bought a small watch making company with money borrowed from family and celebrate the success she’s obtained subsequently.
I’m not naive. Certainly princelings from parents who got their money from shady practices happen – I just found your sweeping note about “corruption” to be a surprise.
I’m sure they are honest ultra rich from China like the trash lady but of course there are plenty who aren’t. I don’t know why you should be surprise, it was in the news, even Chinese top officials are trying to combat it.
I too have a relative who we just recently reconnected who are ultra rich from my home country but I’m sure they didn’t start from scratch either.
The other ultra rich relative inherited money from his ultra rich uncle.
My daughter goes to a school where there are definitely a number of students that are mega wealthy. We are what would be considered wealthy by most people in the US (full pay at private and expensive OOS (the one @billcsho is talking about) but don’t need loans, kids have what we call an “unlimited budget for anything that you think is reasonable” ). My daughter at the private is well aware that while she’s in the very middle SES for her school, that her actual SES is high and she tries to be mindful of friends that don’t have as much as she does when it comes to activities.
When a school has 5-10% wealthy kids, you probably don’t realize the problem easily. When a school has 30%+ wealthy kids, you do feel the SES pressure. From personal outfits to winter/spring break vacation, even some (but definitely not all) of them are very nice people. There were a bunch of kids just vandalized a winter resort this year.
It was like that where I went too. Hong Kong and Indonesia were represented too though. Which I guess contrasted with Malaysia where the government pays for them to come to school here, so they didn’t necessarily have a lot of spending money. Either way, regardless which of these countries they came from they were all ethnic Chinese.