@NashSaddle I agree. That was actually the premise of the original post. For a handful of specific fields, where you attend undergrad is highly significant. Finance seems to be one of those fields. Its also a career with a high salary so that money spent is a good investment. If I had a kid who desperately wanted a career in finance, and had the grades to make it happen, I would push for one of the top schools.
So the summary is that school prestige matters the most in:
- Investment banking.
- Management consulting.
- Law employment with respect to one's law school.
- Academic employment with respect to one's PhD school.
- PhD program admissions for *some* subjects.
So the summary is that school prestige matters the most in:
- Investment banking.
- Management consulting.
- Law employment with respect to one's law school.
- Academic employment with respect to one's PhD school.
- PhD program admissions for *some* subjects.
@ucbalumnus *the Big 4 in CS
Wharton or Harvard*
@PurpleTitan I work in the field and know the recruitment process well. Top banks, especially boutiques, take most of their class from the top few schools. Moreover, PE and especially hedge funds exclusively pull from a few schools. What do you want to know in particular?
@ucbalumnus, add MBA programs.
And for CS, rigor matters. Not quite prestige, but itās correlated.
@ucbalumnus A lot of people talk about rigor. How is that assessed by employers? Is it a matter of what classes are available? How can a student in a lower tier school make sure their education is rigorous enough?
@moscott, I donāt think CS recruiting works the way you think it does. . .
@NashSaddle,
Fair point about Harvard and Wharton offering more/better opportunities than the other IB feeders.
Though I think that your āseveral times moreā is a bit of hyperbole. Life doesnāt end after undergrad and IB->MBA->PE isnāt exactly an uncommon path.
I actually have a decent amount of experience on the buyside and the thing about a PNL-driven industry is that theyāre willing to pull talent from anywhere if they think you can make money. Lots of paths there if that is the end-goal.
@PurpleTitan Thatās fair. For me in particular I feel that the return has been more than worth it, but many state schools do provide great opportunities, and not everyone leaves Wharton with a great job so itās a bet on yourself to a degree.
I agree, talented people can break in from anywhere, itās just much easier to find the path from certain places.
ā@ucbalumnus, add MBA programs.ā
Prestige of undergrad matters little at top business schools. They may look at it but itās bottom on the list of things considered and thereās no causality between undergrad and b-school acceptance. I have some familiarity with b-school admissions and work experience (especially if you are a manager and already show leadership potential) probably 1 or 2, with academics (gpa/gmat/major), then interview, essay, recommendations then things like volunteer, legacy, race, other demographics. And typically 25% of a top b-school will be international, where there is little, if any, look at undergrad institution. Now it it is possible that lower ranked b-schools look more at undergrad.
@theloniusmonk I totally disagree that undergrad matters little at top business schools. What are you basing this on?
For top 15 MBA programs, where you attended undergrad matters a great deal. Not saying that there are no acceptances from mid-level state schools, but everything else about your application will need to be better if you are going to compete with those who graduated from higher ranked schools. And thereās a good chance that where you worked prior to applying might not be as prestigious a company as those who graduated from a top school.
Dartmouth Economics? No one thinks that Dartmouth undergrad is more prestigious than HYP, Penn, Columbia or Brown. Same goes for its economics department and most of its grad schools.
Prestige matters directly for specific industries but there are also many indirect benefits of attending a prestigious school. Exposure to top professors and really impressive peers, access to a super successful alumni network and just genera pride in your achievement of attending a top school. Sure in most cases a top student can succeed no matter where they go to college but there are benefits. If there were no benefits, most top students admitted to ivies and elites would turn them down to attend one of their more affordable state school or private with merit-aid options.
āIf there were no benefits, most top students admitted to ivies and elites would turn them down to attend one of their more affordable state school or private with merit-aid options.ā
Except for the fact that there arenāt any elite state schools in the northeast, where all of the Ivies are located.
āIf there were no benefits, most top students admitted to ivies and elites would turn them down to attend one of their more affordable state school or private with merit-aid options.ā
Except for the fact that there arenāt any elite state schools in the northeast, where all of the Ivies are located.
This article is a little old, but no reason to believe that things have really changed much.
http://fortune.com/2011/08/08/wharton-admissions-as-elitist-as-youd-expect/
@NashSaddle writes: āTop banks, especially boutiques, take most of their class from the top few schools.ā My friend who hires for a top bank in CA agrees, and the schools she listed to me once in passing are all on the coasts. I canāt remember her list, exactly, but it included fewer than ten schools. She said she has more than enough candidates from those schools for entry-level positions, so she doesnāt bother even looking at other resumes. Iām curious to know which schools you would you include in that list. Any in the middle of the country? Iām just curious because I think kids who are not on the coasts or in major metropolitan areas tend to have a harder time breaking into those elite fields like finance, international business, etc.
āExcept for the fact that there arenāt any elite state schools in the northeast, where all of the Ivies are located.ā
Being familiar with this I strongly believe that when it comes to undergraduate engineering and CS this is not a fact but a prejudiced opinion. Rutgers, UCONN, Pitt, just to name a few I believe would be considered elite if they happened to be located elsewhere other than the northeast.
@saillakeerie do statements of fact bother you?