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<p>Students need to choose what fits them. Apply to both, get accepted to both and choose for yourself.</p>
<p>I have always promoted the advantages of state schools, only to be completely disappointed. My daughter, sporting a 3.8 gpa from an “elite” public school in NYC, for which she needed to apply, interview, test and provide a portfolio for admittance (and yes, this is public school), has just been deferred by two SUNY schools. I have always been a huge supporter of state schools. But really, no longer. No doubt she’ll attend another state school in, yes, another state. Just guessing this is what’s called a ‘brain drain’.</p>
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<p>Manhattan is a mindset all of its own. Lots of people in Manhattan regard virtually everyone else in the northeast as a bunch of provincial hicks simply by virtue of not living in “the city.” Taking it a step further, you get references to the “bridge and tunnel crowd.” Even denizens of Brooklyn Heights are lesser beings. :D</p>
<p>So don’t blame the rest of us. In reality, a significant proportion of people EVERYWHERE are provincial.</p>
<p>Xena,</p>
<p>It would be nice if the SUNYs were transparent about IS v. OOS stats for acceptance, especially at Binghamton. It seems like the SUNYs want to give spots out to OOS, to improve their own image.</p>
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Professional schools - ie med, law - can be costly. But I always find it odd that saving must be justified by some immediate expenditure. Perhaps having a nest egg before even graduating college is worthwhile simply for the added financial stability.</p>
<p>When will people realize that ivy league schools can be better than state flagships?</p>
<p>…and when will people realize this is the same arguement we have year after year and that there is no answer. :)</p>
<p>Mind you, I wasted a few years trying to find the answer before truely believeing that there is not an answer.</p>
<p>^^ vp - I believe this thread has established that among state flagships, ivy league schools are only inferior to the University of Kentucky.</p>
<p>^^^and UNLV</p>
<p>I think UNLV is only being compared to Cornell - I suspect due to the Hotel
School…</p>
<p>Should be comparing UNLV to UIUC… where it comes up short, with too little too late.</p>
<p>Sorry, I’m still a little bitter ;)</p>
<p>^^^^The fact of the matter is that many top students will end up attending their flagship public universities for a variety of reasons, primarily financial. I’m not a huge fan of U Kentucky or the state in which it’s located, but let’s take a look at UK for a moment. Since there are no undergrad department rankings, let’s look at the NRC grad rankings (and, yes, I know these rankings state a range but for the present purpose, I’ll just state the higher rank of those ranges) to see where UK depts. stand in relation to some more highly regarded universities.
In Anthropology, Princeton is at 34, but UK ranks 38. UVa ranks 50, UNC ranks 51, Columbia ranks 61, Rice ranks 62.<br>
In Economics, UK is at 71, but Rice is at 90, and those great Washington, DC-based schools, George Washington and American, rank at 99 and 104, respectively.<br>
In Political Science, UK ranks at 34, the same as UCLA . Chicago is at 28, Vanderbilt at 32, Brown at 33, Northwestern at 35, Penn at 39, Georgetown at 62, UVa at 61, and JHU at 66.
In Psychology, UK is at 58, but Cornell is only 69, and way down low is elite Rice at 106.
In Sociology, UK is at 68, but Yale is only at 59, Vanderbilt at 79, and UVa at 89.</p>
<p>In English, UK is at 6 (!), but Yale and Columbia are only slightly higher at 5. Cornell is at 7, Chicago at 8, Duke at 9, Brown at 10, Northwestern at 9, UVa at 21, and Berkeley at 27.
In History, UK is at 26, Duke is at 23, Cornell at 27, Northwestern at 28, Vanderbilt at 31, UVa at 49, USC at 50, and W&M at 73 (in Early American History yet!).
In Music, UK is at 14 but UNC is at 17, Stanford at 21, UCLA, Penn, and Columbia all at 24, and Rochester is only slightly above UK at 10.</p>
<p>In Chemistry, UK is at 31, with Brown at 34, USC at 47, UVa at 53, and (big drop), Tufts at 80.
In Computer Science, UK is at 15, the same as Yale. Purdue is at 16, UVa at 20, Northwestern at 26, JHU at 57, and, W&M at 102.
In Earth Sciences, UK doesn’t fare too well at 82, but UNC is at 97, and unexpectedly, Texas A & M is at 131.
In Math, UK is at 28 but Penn is only at 25 and Chicago is only at 27. Northwestern is at 39, USC at 49, and Rice at 55.
In Physics, UK is at 73, but so is Vanderbilt and USC is at 97. </p>
<p>In Neurobiology, UK is only at 46, but Illinois is only at 54.
In Biochemistry, UK is at 30, the same as Michigan, and higher than JHU at 38, Cornell at 44, and Chicago at 45.
In Civil Engineering, UK is at 52 but Ivy engineering powerhouse, Cornell, is only at 53.</p>
<p>While the NRC grad rankings don’t tell you a lot about the quality of undergrad teaching, presumably top undergrads in a major will benefit from the overall strength of a department.</p>
<p>Plus, Kentucky (sorry MomofWildChild) is in the Sweet 16!
Anyway-great schools everywhere, public and private.</p>
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<p>Would going to MIT be worth $200,000 more (perhaps as debt) than going to Utah on full scholarship?</p>
<p>Note that graduate school in engineering can typically be selected with much less concern about costs, since full time engineering graduate students tend to be offered fellowships, teaching assistantships, and/or research assistantships that come with tuition waivers and enough for living expenses.</p>
<p>Of course, for undergraduate, each student is different in terms of the cost comparison between different universities, since financial aid and scholarships differ for each student.</p>
<p>“If “utahengineer” is so contended with Utah’s experience then what’s the need to go to Stanford for Phd. Why not just get the Phd there. It has worked for him till now and will work for him in future too.”</p>
<p>POIH made a similar post in another thread.</p>
<p>“What difference a Phd from Stanford or Caltech will make?”
"why is rigor any less important for the undergraduate program? </p>
<p>I sense that he resents the fact that some very smart students can turn down an Ivy, get a “free ride” at a lower ranked college and later be accepted at another elite University for grad school- and not have it cost them a dime in UG tuition. There are 2 ways to “skin a cat” and some choose to do it the less expensive way.
Either that or he doesn’t understand how admissions for Phd programs work- you are accepted [ hired in essence] by the prof[s] that you will work for, train under, and who will be contributing to your low grad school stipend with their research grant $$ for 3-5 years. The profs then tell the grad school admissions directors who to accept into the program. Its more like being hired for a low paying, intellectually challenging, hard job with great long term benefits.</p>
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<p>BUT- in a few years all Calipari’s wins will be vacated…going by past history.</p>
<p>^^What’s the point of wanting to go to an elite school for grad school, menloparkmom, when state publics can provide an equally good education?</p>
<p>^^ same reasons as I posted before in another thread:
“He didn’t apply to those graduate programs because of the “prestige” factor of those universities, but because they have the best PHD programs and professors in his particular field of study. He frankly wouldnt care if he was going to “Podunk U” for grad school, if it had the best profs and grad school program for him.
In the scientific world, [at least in his highly specialized field,] for those wishing to be scientists- WHO you studied under/ worked with in Grad school makes all the difference. And the best profs /scientists in his field are at CT and Stanford.”</p>
<p>Grad school in a STEM program is not about getting an “equally good” education. Its about being trained in a highly specialized area, with the goal of working either in academia or eventually at senior level in a scientific company or industry. DS wanted to be trained by the best in his field. He was lucky enough that they also wanted to train him.</p>
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I think people confuse grad school with professional schools. Professional schools (architecture, law, med school, business school and others) don’t have stipends though they may have some merit or need based aid. PhD. programs though, if you are desirable, will generally have stipends.</p>
<p>^Yea, that’s why I get confused when people advise to go to state flagship undergrad then expensive grad…</p>