When would you call the dean to complain?

Parents Forum
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<p>Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. They’ve been very helpful in putting this in perspective for me.</p>

<p>I completely agree that my D should work this out for herself. Also, I am pretty sure that she did everything she was supposed to on time — she is that type of girl, very conscientious. However, she does need to learn more about advocating forcefully for herself. She did go talk to the professor and her adviser about all this, but sometimes this kind of situation requires a tenacity and persistance that she might be hesitant to exhibit. It’s more of a personality issue, and one she will learn to get over, sooner rather than later I am hoping.</p>

<p>I will pass the suggestions to her. I’m still thinking it might not be a bad idea to have an “informational” phone call with the dean though. I know this is a common problem at small liberal arts colleges and that money is an issue for them especially now, but as a parent and paying customer, I expect some sincere effort on their part to accommodate reasonable requests from students. This college is in real danger of losing my D to a transfer, after all. She can’t be the first to experience this frustration.</p>

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<p>"I’m still thinking it might not be a bad idea to have an “informational” phone call with the dean though. "</p>

<p>I think the person who should do that is your D. It will help her decide whether to transfer. It also will help her learn how to handle these kind of challenges. I can’t think of any reason why you should make that call.</p>

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<p>^^^Northstarmom, I am coming to the same conclusion myself, that she may need to transfer to a school with more course offerings. It’s her decision to make.</p>

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<p>You are probably right that I should leave it for her to make the call. But I know from experience that a 50 year old adult can sometimes get better results than a 19 year old, for obvious reasons. Not that this justifies interfering. I’m just saying.</p>

<p>Anyway, I know it’s the custom to let the student muddle their way through college, but I’m beginning to think it’s kind of wacky that such a huge monetary investment is treated on faith like this.</p>

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<p>“Anyway, I know it’s the custom to let the student muddle their way through college, but I’m beginning to think it’s kind of wacky that such a huge monetary investment is treated on faith like this.”</p>

<p>A big part of the college experience is teaching students how to be independent and meet the potentially even more costly challenges they’ll face in adulthood</p>

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<p>“When would you call the dean to complain?”</p>

<p>Imminent threat to health or safety.</p>

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<p>I’d tell your D to get information on how she can get wait-listed for the closed class or whatever mechanism might be available for getting into closed classes (permission from the instructor, Dean, whatever). She’s the one who needs to do that, not you. I can sympathize with your annoyance, but your D is the one who should be taking the lead on this.</p>

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<p>Also, if your D’s major is very important to her, she’ll either find a way to get into the classes that she needs or she’ll transfer to a school where she can get the classes she needs. If she doesn’t do one of those things, she’ll probably be just as happy in another major.</p>

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<p>The main question that hasn’t been answered here is whether the courses that she couldn’t take are courses that a sophomore would normally be expected to take or whether they are courses that students usually take later in their program.</p>

<p>It is quite common – at many colleges – for students who enter with advanced preparation in a subject to be unable to get into the advanced courses they are ready for because seniors and juniors have priority over sophomores and freshmen when it comes to registration. If that’s your daughter’s situation, she doesn’t have anything special to complain about, really. It’s normal (unfortunately), and it will not decrease her chances of graduating on time.</p>

<p>But if your daughter, as a sophomore, cannot get into courses that she needs to take now (for example, a course that is a prerequisite for her major and therefore must be taken before she can be admitted into the major at the end of her sophomore year), she would have good reason to bring the situation to the attention of the department’s undergraduate advisor and maybe even the dean.</p>

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<p>I don’t think that it is inappropriate for parents to register a complaint in this situation. I agree that the daughter should handle the issue of arranging the best schedule possible, by herself. I don’t think that any complaint to the dean is very likely to change the situation this year. </p>

<p>However, at any college/university, it is very likely that there are inappropriate priorities being set for budget allocations. Complaints from the parents can actually help to get additional funding for a department, when there is enrollment pressure–more so than requests from the faculty in that department (and more than pressure from students).</p>

<p>Also, write letters, rather than calling. That creates a permanent record.</p>

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<p>“Complaints from the parents can actually help to get additional funding for a department, when there is enrollment pressure–more so than requests from the faculty in that department.”</p>

<p>Students can be very effective if they band together to register complaints about policies and situations that are adversely affecting many students.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, you know I have the highest respect for you. Your statement is no doubt true at Harvard, where you were a student. It might be true at Mousegray’s D’s school. It’s not true where I work–not with respect to general fund allocations to departments. Have there been student-initiated changes where you are now?</p>

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<p>I was looking at the lists of the various Kiplinger Best Value schools and noticed that one item on the chart was the 4 year graduation rate. Several schools have 4 year grad rates in the teens (between 15 and 19%) and quite a few are between 25-35%. As our children consider schools, we all need to be looking at the 4 year grad rates and investigating what is behind the numbers…are the students unmotivated, or is it possible that the students have a very difficult time getting the classes they need to graduate in 4 years?</p>

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<p>“Your statement is no doubt true at Harvard, where you were a student. It might be true at Mousegray’s D’s school. It’s not true where I work–not with respect to general fund allocations to departments. Have there been student-initiated changes where you are now?”</p>

<p>I know that when I was a grad student at GW and the library started refusing to let students use their staples because “staples cost money,” students complained and the library stopped that ridiculous policy.</p>

<p>I have seen changes occur at the second tier public college where I taught, and where H still teaches. In fact that’s a reason that a required course in H’s department that had been a no credit course is now a credit course.</p>

<p>I don’t think that one parent’s complaining at the OP’s D’s school is going to make a difference. However, if many students complain there about not being able to get into required courses for their major, I do think that changes are likely to occur. It’s also far easier to organize students for those kind of complaints than to try to get lots of parents to complain.</p>

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<p>Way back when, at the time I was a student, I can say that my parents would not ever have called the university unless it was for a billing error or similar. It came as a revelation to me when a cousin called a top LAC regarding a problem with his child’s program. I thought at that time, still a few years back, that it showed that the D was immature. However, the cousin’s spouse was a professor elsewhere (and a Dept head to boot), and I learned that a parent calling was not so unusual.</p>

<p>That said, I still think your D should exhaust all avenues at her disposal before throwing it over to you. Talk to prof., sit in on class, register for something else just in case, etc. If it is dependent on lab spots or similar equipment issues, I don’t think it will work, but for a lecture type class, why not try.</p>

<p>In my undergrad career, being closed out happened frequently. At the time, it seemed to me that they must have just pulled names out of a hat in a haphazard manner. This was at a top University (not HYP). One semester, I got no classes that I registered for. I always turned in the paperwork on time. That of course was in the old days before computers, where there was paperwork. Finally, one year I did not get into a course in my major that was offered only every other year. To me it was a huge deal, since I had been looking forward to it for my entire college career. I went, and I must admit now how awful it must have looked, in hysterics to the professor. I was under additional stress since my mom was in the hospital at the time. I have to say, that he was unbelievably sympathetic on all counts, even giving some life advice as well. In the end, since it was a seminar, he could open up the course, and he did.</p>

<p>Also, as an adult looking back, I have to say that this top university must have planned very poorly. Although I knew a lot of people majored in that major (a liberal arts one), I recently found out that a huge percentage of students have that major, and it was unlikely to be different back then. The idea of offering a class every other year (and it was just for juniors and seniors) which so many want to take would have had to have been designed to see many people unhappy because they were closed out. I don’t even think that the then Dean was someone I EVER saw for my own eyes. Fortunately, the current Dean is more accessible, and I think would be approachable at the particular school I went to and would want to at least hear what students are saying.</p>

<p>In any case, contact with the Dean should be factual, calm, and open so that a dialogue rather than a complaint can take place.</p>

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<p>I feel the frustration of OP’s daughter. At our large state uni, we’ve seen tremendous state budget cuts. Even before the cuts, it was common for underclassmen not to get the classes they wanted, particularly in certain areas. We have a priority system that allows honors college students of all levels top priority, then seniors in all colleges and so forth. My suggestion, if you do decide to make an informational call to the dean, would be to ask about the priority system to see where your D fits in that system. Are there certain programs or majors that get higher priority ranking and is there a way for her to utilize that to her advantage? However, be aware that with privacy issues these days, you may find that even though you’re paying the bill, you don’t have much of a voice.</p>

<p>As others have said, first line of action imo would be for your daughter to appeal to anyone she can get to listen to her - professor(s), mentor, advisor(s), dept head, dean of college and on up the chain of command. I don’t know when class starts for your D, but I would show up for class the first day and talk to the professor (again) “just to see” if there are no shows that perhaps she can use to appeal for a spot. If there’s a waitlist system where she is, find out how it works and use it. You have a greater chance by learning the system and how to work the system to your advantage.</p>

<p>Before you seriously consider a transfer, consider that most other colleges/unis have been hit with cuts this year too and it will have an impact most places on course offerings. Unfortunately, the largest part of the budget for a uni is salaries and when you’re faced with large budget cuts, there’s no other place to find cuts of that magnitude without reducing or eliminating course offerings and in some cases entire campuses.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you and your D; I know it’s not easy and it’s frustrating. It’s just as frustrating for those having to make decisions with respect to where to find those budget cuts.</p>

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<p>I have a different point for the OP to consider, based on d’s experience at state flagship— if some major classes are not offerrred to sophs this year, why would you want to be in those with other srs and jrs? Its not a good idea from a gpa point–in her development curve as a student, she might not be as good of an academic writer yet, or final-taker as the older students are… best to take classes that are your own academic peer group…it seems to work out in the end, right? As long as she can get the classes in time to graduate, it should be ok.</p>

<p>It has been in my d’s case, anyway…</p>

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<p>^Everyone’s kid is different of course, but when my son was shut out of an advanced comp sci course as a sophomore he waited it out. There were quite a few ahead of him on the list, but he eventually got into the class. He’d had the prerequisites and it was the right placement for him even if most sophomores aren’t ready for it. He got an A.</p>

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<p>True story here…I had a question for a department chairperson at DD’s school…and I called. They would NOT discuss the situation with me at all. <em>I</em> am not a student there. My kid is. They urged me to have her contact them (she did and the situation was clarified). But make no mistake about it…the school was NOT going to discuss this with me (it had to do with an instructor my daughter loved and wante to continue to work with…). </p>

<p>Have your daughter make the call.</p>

<p>P.S. My daughter had signed the FERPA forms giving me full access to her student info and also to communicate with folks on campus.</p>

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<p>Missypie - I too was looking at the 4 year graduation rates. Since we are only looking at tier 3 LAC’s I was confused as to why one of the schools listed 94% while the others we are looking at are in the 50’s & 60’s. I questioned them on it and the response I got was that they guarantee a students will be able to get into a class he needs in order to graduate on time. They said this is how they are choosing to differentiate themselves. For financial reasons, I liked their response.</p>