When You Don't Like Your Kid's College Choice

Parents Forum
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<p>Okay, I'll be the contrarian, flame-attracting, she-devil mother.</p>

<p>My D wanted to stay close to home and we said NO. </p>

<p>Actually, we said yes, fine, go ahead & apply, but we will not pay for it... Indeed, we said we'd pay for any school-- the best school she could get into-- as long as it was not within our immediate area. Further, we agreed that if after a semester she hated being away she could transfer back near home and we would then pay. But we expected college to be a bigger growth experience than digging into the familiar in our back yard.</p>

<p>Hey: it's our $40K! </p>

<p>I don't believe a parent is obligated to financially back a 'bad' decision (if they think it is a bad one.) I felt the "close to home" school, in her case, was not a well-thought-out choice. It was irrational, fearful, and (surprise, surprise) as it turned out, boy-related. (Boy later bit the dust.)</p>

<p>Now, TO BE FAIR, this is a kid-by-kid, school-by-school policy. Some kids can be FINE near home. My D has always been a clingy kid who hated change & took transition hard-- then thrived once the transition was done. My younger son is ten times more independent and fearless, so if HE picked a nearby school I would have less problem with it, as I would know it was not a fear-based choice. (My D marveled this summer that he wasn't afraid to ride the city bus all over town-- because she IS!)</p>

<p>I felt my D BADLY needed a completely independent, new experience somewhere completely on her own. Our imaginary line was a few hours drive from home or more for parental subsidy.</p>

<p>So, Catherine, I would say if you instinctively feel that NYU is a good and well reasoned choice and that it will not stand in the way of the optimal development of your daughter, and it is just YOU who is disappointed, okay; you may want to support NYU. </p>

<p>But if you feel she is being lazy, or Manhattan-centric, or narrowing her horizons unduly, talk to her about it. Maybe she would agree to a gap year somewhere cool to show she's willing to see the world, before going to NYU. Or maybe you have her visit 2-3 other sorts of schools for overnights prior to making a final decision. Or maybe you'll decide you aren't willing to financially support the decision.</p>

<p>The fact is that not all 17 or 18 year olds make decisions equally well and some need much more nudging than others. Some kids like fast decisions and they need to be slowed down, taken through the options, so they don't miss something wonderful. </p>

<p>In the end my D <em>did</em> apply to one school in our backyard (on the theory she could always get her grandparents to help pay,) plus three in our state, and others scattered all around the country.</p>

<p>She is now BLISSFULLY happy-- at a school that's an all day airplane trip from home. </p>

<p>She has thanked me at least twenty times over the last few months for making her get her gaze up out of her navel and take a hard look at all the incredible choices out there. She tells me her school is a perfect fit, that she could not imagine a better place for her. </p>

<p>In my heart of hearts I think the best thing she'll get out of four years is the confidence that she can hold her own and make a great life anywhere.</p>

22

<p>
[quote]
What is "gapping" that NYU has a reputation for?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Gapping is when the Financial aid department does not account for the total cost of attendance. </p>

<p>IF the cost of attendance is 40,000</p>

<p>You have a 20,000 EFC</p>

<p>Her financial need would be: $20,000</p>

<p>NYU's financial aid could give her a package as follows:</p>

<p>scholarship: 3000
Unsubsidized loan 3000</p>

<p>total aid: 6,000</p>

<p>amount of money unaccounted for (gapped) $14,000</p>

<p>this will leave you to come up with the money on your own in the event that the school does not offer you a parent loan.</p>

23

<p>My D is just a junior. She had her mind set on NYU- the whole NYC thing, didn't want a campus, yadayadayada</p>

<p>Then she saw Georgetown, with its campus in the city. Well, it really opened her mind to options.</p>

<p>So, be SURE she checks out other schools in the city and out. Do a road trip to Boston.</p>

<p>NYU is not a cakewalk to get into, and if she has her whole heart set on that school, and it doesn't happen, and she sees no other school as good, she won't be happy.</p>

<p>She needs to be realistic because of the number game. If she puts all her energy and soul into one choice, one location, she could be very lost if it doesn't work out.</p>

24

<p>I dont think you dont like the school..what you dont like is that she has elected not to expand the universe ie go somewhere different..
So what!
Bottomline the goal is to enjoy ones life and that can happen right in ones hometown..You dont have to go somewhere else to have fun and grow.</p>

25

<p>For an urban kid, sometimes moving far away to expand horizons can really backfire -- my own daughter will only consider attending colleges in or very close to major urban centers, and knowing her I think it is the right decision, even though I was sad to see schools like Bard and Vassar dropped from the list (not to mention the entire rural midwest). The bottom line is that urban kids have already been exposed to a tremendous amount of diversity and wide ranging cultural experiences at home, often merely by virtue of using public transportation to travel the distance between home and school. I know that my city kid has grown up used to hearing many different languages spoken wherever she goes -- and simply walking a few blocks can be a window into a very different world. A trip off to a rural or suburban LAC can seem like being exiled. </p>

<p>It is very, very hard for any city to measure up to Manhattan for someone who is a true lover of NYC. Yes - New Yorkers sometimes have a worldview that seems provincial -- but just about everywhere else they visit can seem quaint or boring in their eyes. They are used to a high-stimulation, limitless world in a city that never sleeps. Send the kid to a college in a town that rolls up the sidewalks at 10 pm? Good recipe for unhappy, bored kid who can't wait to come home. Lesson learned: every place else is boring. Or, worse: "There's nothing to do around here except get drunk." </p>

<p>I'd say, financial considerations aside, let the kid choose their college. If you have the misfortune to live in a city which has a world class university that your kid wants to attend..... well, why did you choose to live there in the first place? Probably because it IS a great city, right?</p>

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<p>My wife and I thank G-d that our daughter didn't attend NYU after she got in. The tuition at NYU is about as high as any school, but they had the nerve, two years ago, to wait until one week after deposit money was due, to raise tuition rates close to 7 percent. My daughter ended up in Montreal, is having a great time and the tuition at McGill is about one-third (yes, one-third, it's not a typo) of NYU - Montreal is gorgeous and the diversity at McGill far outpaces NYU. Until 20 years ago, NYU was a commuter school.</p>

27

<p>I must say, I do tire of the city=diversity=knowledge stereotype that often rears its head in discussions about the relative merits of urban dwelling versus rural squatting. If the kid likes the city, great, let her go where she wants to go, but in doing so she WILL be missing a very important aspect of what an education is meant to be. You don't need anyone to tell you that we live in a selfish, on the whole unthoughtful, fast-food, fast-thrill, fast-satisfaction, we-do-it-all-for-you kind of world; and the ease with which we reaffirm this picture through our actions--even against what may possibly be our own (again theoretical) better aspirations--by providing our children with "WHAT THEY WANT," testifies to just how deep and insidious is this longing to satisfy. The fact is, satisfaction is THE number one killer of the will to educate. Granted, we all like to have a little food in the tummy, but achieving one's "comfort level" here, as in so many other areas of lfe, is more condusive to a long nap than any rigouous undertaking. I bark about this not because I am a cynic, but because this attitude pervades our national/class consciousness (read as you will) so thoroughly that it saturates even the $40,000 halls of the colleges and universities of "higher' learning we would so much like to make our own.<br>
But, boy, have I moved away from the point here! What I really want to say is that diversity is as rich in the farmland as it is in any city in the world--you just have to know how to look and listen. Most of this depends on you and how you are equipped, how you are equipped to see and to hear, to experience, to distinguish, to attempt, to discomfort, to analyse, to pursue, to extinguish, to revivify . . . it all comes down to how hungry you are.
Don't be tender on this point. Start asking your daughter some real hard questions, ones she is most likely ill-equipped to answer right now; questions that actually take her out of the linear realm of just one more step out of highschool. You'll be surprised at what good husbandry will bring forth in the long run of the seasons. And right there in the wilds of New York City, no less . . .</p>

28

<p>Palm Desert? Gevalt. Try Cambria instead. Up the coast, not [blecch] desert fit for Gila monsters and rattlesnakes and golfers.</p>

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<p>Catherine, if you send me a PM (you don't have that feature enabled so I can't send you one) I will send you a recent email from a soph at NYU which gives a very enlightening portrayal of the school. It might help you with your D. Anyone else- feel free to PM me as well.</p>

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<p>She should apply to the school she wants. NYU offers a fine education in most fields. But--she will need "safety" or back-up choices, also you can demand that she applies to one or two of your favorite choices for her--then, when acceptances come in, SHE can make her final choice--perhaps having done overnights at a couple of the "other" choices--to make sure she still feels the same about NYU.</p>

<p>I grew up in NYC, went to college elsewhere, live elsewhere now, but return often to The City and can well understand the "separation anxiety". A lifetime in New York is an education in itself.</p>

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<p>pennypac, great post.</p>

<p>Funny how nobody would challenge the value of a kid spending a gap year in the sticks of a foriegn country, but the sticks here in the USA aren't diverse, educational?-- that just doesn't make any sense.</p>

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<p>Sure there's a lot to be learned out in the country, but an 18 year old city kid might not be ready for that. Especially a NYC kid.</p>

<p><"It is very very hard for any city to measure up to Manhattan for someone who is a true lover of NYC...just about any place they visit can seem quaint or boring in their eyes."></p>

<p>Exactly. NYC is different in that way. My son recently graduated from college and works and lives in Manhattan along with lots of his college pals. For the most part, they liked Pittsburgh. But they LOVE New York. If your daughter says she'll only be happy in NY I'd listen (but can you at least get her to visit a few other schools to be sure?). Lots of NYC kids go to NYU or other city schools.</p>

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<p>my 2c.....the application process should be just that, a process. What I mean is that what you and your daughter think today may drastically change by spring. If the two of you are not in agreement about ED, then I say do RD and expand both schools to look at and ones to apply to. I wouldn't rule out NYU, but would not expect that it is a slam dunk. Its better to have some choice in the spring, than be tied into an early decision.</p>

<p>oh, and I 100% agree with tsdad. Any school had to be somewhere that had good shopping, restaurants, etc.</p>

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<p>Other than the fact that you live in proximity of NYU, what is it about NYU that you do not like ?</p>

<p>
[quote]
She doesn't even want to try Columbia, which at least has a campus, or Barnard

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Fron this statement it seems like you may feel that NYU is beneath her and she can or should do better.</p>

<p>I think you really need to have some open communication where she can state and you can really listen to her reasons for wanting to attend NYU. By the same time you need to state your reasons for believing that NYU is not a good choice for her.</p>

<p>I am in agreement to others who say that she should not throw all of her eggs into the NYU basket because she needs to have a plan B in the event she does not get admitted to NYU. If she is interested in large urban schools would she be equally interested in attending BU or GWU? No matter what she needs to build a list from the bottom up.</p>

<p>I know that the allure of NYC can be very intoxicating but if she has not seen or experienced anything else, how will she find what else she likes. Can she tell you exactly what she doesn't want in her college experience because that is just as important as knowing what you do want.</p>

<p>It almost reminds me of Sam I am constantly stating that he will not eat green eggs and ham, having never tasted them.</p>

<p>I have one of those there is NYC and everywhere else kids who is happy as a clam in a place that as far as one can get from NYC life, Hanover NH. She visted Dartmouth with the mindset, that it can't hurt to look but I am not going to like it. Went to visit stayed a few nights, sat in on a few classes, came home saying this is the place and she could not imagine her self anywhere else. However, she would have never known this if she were not willing to look outside of her comfort zone and what she has always known.</p>

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<p>Ahhh, why is everyone always looking for a "diss" where there isn't one!? I adore the country, hoping to move as rural as possible in the next few years, but that doesn't mean a city kid who wants to stay in the city is just looking for immediate satisfaction, can't stretch her mind, doesn't want to, and probably kicks puppies, too!</p>

<p>Yes, one goes to a college to get an education; that's why they have classes, professors, other students, facilities, etc. That she will never be stretched, and doesn't want to, because the college is near where she grew up, is just absurd. And I seriously doubt that the vast majority of students in rural colleges are interacting with the locals, or spending much time on the surrounding farms.</p>

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<p>I would listen to a kid who, after some visiting, says he want to be in a city. I have a friend with one kid at a rural school who became bored once the college novelty wore off. The second kid chose a city school because of the amenities cities offer, and is very happy there. My own son measured each college by how long it would take to drive to the nearest city. It's good to look around, but they sure do have their own opinions!</p>

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<p>we lose sight of it here on CC, but the majority of kids go to college w/in a pretty small radius of where they live, whether it is NYC or Muletree, Texas. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. But if a family has the means to look farther afield, it's good to know what the options actually are. A NYC-loving kid might reasonably reject small-town schools. But they might love, and find the college of their dreams, in Boston, D.C., Chicago, or San Francisco. Or follow the lead of Chief6's daughter and look at schools in Montreal or Quebec. Those are all fabulous cities.</p>

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<p>If the kiddo really WANTS NYU and you can afford to pay for NYU...then go ED. If you need to consider the finances at all, NYU is not a place to consider ED as they are notoriously stingy with finaid, leaving many families with higher than anticipated costs.</p>

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<p>I am the OP. Yes, my daughter has visited other colleges *(columbia, Georgetown, GW, BU, Tufts, U.Penn, BC, Chicago, Northwestern, U.Michigan, so far). She is going to see Brown and Trinity but I doubt it will make a difference.
She wants to apply ED to NYU because she loves the location in Greenwich Village. She knows nothing about the classes and admits the educational part has nothing to do with her decision - she just thinks it would be a cool place to live. This is why I am not in favor of her decision - I think a choice of college should have SOMETHING to do with the educational part. Since NYU is divided into various colleges, she will not have the option of majoring in communications or drama - two subjects she is interested in - since she doesn't want to comit to a major before going (she's not sure, which is valid). So she'd go to CAS if she gets in, cutting herself off from her two most likely majors (drama is at Tisch and Communications are at Steinhardt).
I could tell her she is not allowed to apply ED, but she says her chances are much higher ED. I fear if we make her apply regular decision and she doesn't get in, she'll blame us. She has good grades from junior year and did well on her SAT1s (near 2200) and she is taking them again in October. Her senior courses are tough - she is taking Calculus AP and Chemistry AP (along with other AP courses) and she's afraid her mid-year grades in math and science may not be terrific as she is a "humanities" person. That's why she wants to apply ED.
Thank you everybody for taking the time to listen to our situation and to give me your thoughtful replies.
The only other schools she visited that she liked at all (but not as much as NYU) were Univeristy of Chicago and GW, and the reason she liked them is that they had urban environments.
She is a great kid and this is the first time she has gotten really irrational - nothing counts but location for college-which is why we are having trouble handling it.</p>

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<p>As long as the student is choosing a college that is up to par with his or her academic ability (assuming that it is affordable for the parents), then I believe the kid should ultimately make the final decision. We all want what we perceive as the best situation for our children, but they are old enough to map out their own futures and usually have that certain "hunch" as to which campus suits their needs best at the time. </p>

<p>Our daughter would not even consider the school that we had envisioned as the perfect choice for her; it simply did not appeal to her at all. As a result, she is only two hours from home, yet she only comes home for the major breaks (fall break, Thanksgiving, and Christmas). It is nice to know, however, that she is so close by in case she should need us for an emergency. In fact, her dad often has business meetings in her area and can sometimes schedule a dinner with her once every few weeks. In her mind, she is a million miles away from home because she is fully involved in every aspect of campus life. In fact, she cannot come home on weekends because of her many ECs that require her to stay on campus full-time.</p>