<p>SteveMA, Oh yes, we get a lot of that here. Very few of the local kids look out side of New England. Sure, there are some wonderful schools nearby, but there are also many that are less than wonderful. I do fear I may lose my son to the Midwest; he just loves the open space.</p>
<p>familyof3boys–my secret desire is that my kids end up someplace that is fun to vacation :D. I’ll go visit them and probably see them as much as if they lived close by.</p>
<p>I believe the evidence supports that; tuition pricing is more a formula based on “prestige” and “perception” than actual costs. As it says in one of the articles, “colleges and universities may be non-profit, but that doesn’t mean they are cost containment institutions either.”</p>
<p>As a former exec in a non-profit, I can most assuredly tell you - we would find a way to spend every dime we were given, lest we be given less the following year.</p>
<p>If a University charges 50k a year and fills its class? what incentive does it have to reduce costs to keep tuition in check? “None” it will simply raise tuition again and again and again, until the market tells them, through declining enrollment, that it has reached a price it can no longer command.</p>
<p>I think that a lot of people associate “non-profit” with 'not making any money" and would be surprised to learn that companies like Blue Cross are “non-profit”.</p>
<p>Some Blue Cross companies are non-profit companies, while others are for-profit companies.</p>
<p>Non-profit companies do have to avoid losing money over the long term, or else they will go bankrupt.</p>
<p>Its incredible! just dig a little deeper into the numbers for Duke that JHS provided. Taking them at face value; a 6 BILLION dollar endowment, non-health system compensation expense of ~ 400 million! A meager and safe 5% return on their endowment (I would bet they get A LOT better than that), pays most all of their salaries - what are they doing with the ~ 300 million they’re getting in tuition every year??? throwing it on the pile!</p>
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<p>The methodology does not take into account the mix of majors at each school. A school heavy in engineering and computer science majors may have a higher average than a school heavy in biology and humanities majors, even if the engineering and computer science majors at the latter school have higher average pay than engineering and computer science majors at the former school.</p>
<p>More useful would be pay averages stratified by both college and major, rather than one or the other, as the Payscale web site offers.</p>
<p>giterdone-that is pretty much the case with all of these schools with large endowments. Hats off to HYP, etc. for their income based tuition though. I would have a hard time giving back to a school that doesn’t use these endowment funds to reduce costs for those most in need.</p>
<p>What is YOUR definition of a “luxury”?
I might feel that the extras in a car that improve its safety, if only by a marginal amount, are worthwhile, but you might feel that they are not. But you may prefer a better sound system or Bluetooth…
Back to the pants analogy from Hunt:
Yes, there is an element of fashionable things allowing prices to be placed higher.
Yes, there is also the element that the pants made of a better fabric last longer.
YMMV, as always.</p>
<p>Price does end up being what someone is willing (and able, by definition) to pay, in the end… It is affected by perceptions of quality, of returns, of sought-after- ness, as well as the cost of running and/or creating it.</p>
<p>If you do not see the value, the worth, then you should not buy it, at least not at that price. But realize that others may see a good subjective reason to pay the price.</p>
<p>Marketing and brand management definitely affect this price thing- to wit, the college ranking system… The perception works on the purchase end (admissions) and also on the sale end (getting hired or into graduate school), IMHO. The study linked here is flawed because it does not include both.</p>
<p>You could also argue that an Honors program or a prestigious scholarship at any college has a good amount of brand prestige, btw. </p>
<p>And we all know it depends what geographic region the student will want to end up in, and also what area they will study.
This is a very old CC theme.</p>
<p>What IS fascinating is how the nominal ticket prices just keep going up without resistance! (as do the costs, in many cases, unfortunately…) Yes, it is a weak economy, but some are desperate for a way to distinguish themselves as future member of the work-force, at any price. Meanwhile, the judicious use of FA (discounts) has also allowed the colleges to continue to publish higher nominal ticket prices so as to keep confirming their brand, the appearance of price inelasticity…
The hole in the middle is not well served right now with this pricing system.</p>
<p>@uc… I agree there would be better data sects if it were parse-able and material. I wonder, with how large and diverse a graduating class is; how material the adjustment would be, if ideally delivered per your prescription?</p>
<p>One other point that I think should be mentioned here is that salary is not the only measure of success, and when you look at top schools in particular, many students may choose careers that don’t pay that well, but that we would all view as successful. For example, who’s more successful, a professor at Harvard Law School, or a partner at a top New York law firm?</p>
<p>who makes more? ;)</p>
<p>The partner makes WAY more.</p>
<p>SteveMA, missed your post to me from last page. Wabash isn’t on the list. 85-90% med school acceptance rate, 1 in 8 graduates hold title of CEO or President in their lifetime, CTCL school. Consistly ranked as a top midwest LAC Also, didn’tsee Hanover, another small but well-regarded school in southern Indiana.</p>
<p>What about the inspirational 4-th grade teacher? Probably not making big $$$, but (in my opinion) successful too!</p>
<p>So, just to be a little provocative and put a bow on this thread;</p>
<p>Should college be a 4+ year, pre-adult “experience camp” Where price is only a function of what quality and type of experiences you and your kid(s) decide they want, sprinkled with some formal education, wrapped up in a diploma and hopefully ending with some level of gainful employment (although that last part is optional).</p>
<p>Or;</p>
<p>Should college be a pre-professional immersion into ones life calling and chosen field, to develop depth of knowledge, critical thinking, and other preparatory social and assimilation skills useful for advancing (or surviving) in the profession of choice?</p>
<p>and finally;</p>
<p>Who decides? the parents, the kid, society.</p>
<p>MizzBee-in their methodology they did say they excluded some small schools because the sample size was too small. With 1000 or less, I can see why both of those schools would be excluded as well as the high percentage of students that go on to grad/medical/law school 30-40%, also an exclusion in that report. It isn’t so much about ranking as it is about earning potential after graduating from those schools.</p>
<p>giterdome, why not both??</p>
<p>I recently got into a “discussion” about this topic with my sister, whose DD is a HS junior. They are beginning the college search and tours. All her research has focused on starting salaries for graduates. She seems rather unconcerned about the experience her DD will have in college, only her ROI. I find that a little sad.</p>
<p>I can’t say what college should be or what society needs it to be. All I can say is that I was in no way ready for pre-professional immersion when I went to university 35 years ago. Nor was I ready when I went to graduate school as a default because I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life, though I did know I was good at going to school. Somehow I figured out what I was good at and now I am doing that for a living, and my formal education has little bearing on what I do on a day-to-day basis. When I have more time I’ll think on the “who decides” part.</p>
<p>Oops. I screwed up reading my own notes. Duke spent $1.2 billion on compensation expense for the University alone last year, exclusive of the health system (which had another $1.2 billion of compensation expense, despite having about 3x the employee headcount compared to the educational institution). And its $350 million of tuition was net of financial aid, and represented about 57% of “sticker price” (although that includes a law school, business school, medical school etc. – there are no separate figures on the college in the financial statements). </p>
<p>In any event, on compensation alone, Duke spent 500% of what UNC-Charlotte did to educate 80% of the number of students.</p>
<p>As for endowment – yes, endowment income designated for current operations was slightly higher than net tuition collected, and the two of them together covered about 1/3 of the educational institution’s operating budget. Lots of research money from government and private industry was involved, as well as patent income, university-owned enterprises, and current contributions.</p>