<p>Well, there is no debate about whether or not schools can spend. And spend all they’re given, and then some! seems to be the common practice.</p>
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<p>Probably very material, especially for schools which have a distribution of majors considerably different from that of the “average” school (note the presence of engineering and mining focused schools at the top of the lists).</p>
<p>A few schools have career surveys stratified by major specific to the school (as opposed to generic NACE surveys).</p>
<p>If all I was concerned about was ROI I wpuld have encouraged all my kiddos to apprentice our local plumber or electrician. Or in my youngest son’s case start off at a culinary school and then later matriculating to a 4 yr to complete his culinary degree.</p>
<p>But instead, what I wanted for them was to be 1) well-educated, in many different subjects, math, science, history, foreign languages 2) well-read in all those different subjects and 3) the love of being a life-time learner and discovering what they were passionate about.</p>
<p>That’s it. If they accomplished those 3 things, really accomplished to the best of their abilities the money would follow. I wanted them to take full advantage of every opportunity their college education would afford them. And yes it really is about the kiddo, what they put into they will get back.</p>
<p>But and a big but, there are discernable differences. My kiddos attended an ivy, OOS flagship Public, In-state flagship “ivy” public, community college, LAC and a service academy. </p>
<p>Best comparison was the ivy grad who also attended and completed 2 more undergrad degrees at the in-state flagship public. No comparison. Not even on the same plane.</p>
<p>His words, not mine. Granted he learned what he needed for the 2nd STEM degrees but the experience not even remotely familiar. His fellow peers, his profs, his research, his alum contacts…He truely made use of everything his ivy offered…his mentor/advisor was just awarded the nobel prize, his buddies are now at Yale, Harvard, Columbia law, attending the top med schools, work at boutique pe firms a year out of college, work for senators, congressmen, teach for America…all are either employed or in school. And I don’t know how many actually complete the salary surveys…according to son most don’t.</p>
<p>On the other hand, daughter went to an OOS public and enjoyed every minute of it. She too absorbed as much as she could while there. Also like son she was a D1 athlete, pre-med/dental double major graduated magna cum and took all the classes she could. As a classics major sh also took flameco dance, Navajo and did research in the med school all 4 years. It was a great fit, for her.</p>
<p>So my advice is to really think about your kiddo and listen to them. What are their strengths, and their weaknesses?</p>
<p>I wanted their schools to push them, challenge them…really put them out of their comfort zone. That is how they learn, grow and become well-educated.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Kat
ps daughter at the OOS public turned down an ivy, for fit not the money</p>
<p>
Should cars be more like BMWs or Kias? You have a wide variety of choices, and can pick whichever you prefer. And because is this is America, other people can freely criticize your choices and your priorities.</p>
<p>I graduated from our state flagship located “On the Banks” back when the last sabertooth tigers were stalking the wooly mammoths. My network of referrals and influential alumni connections upon graduation was rather slim, though we muddled through and found gainful employment.</p>
<p>A degree from a top institution, with its alumni networking base, is an asset worth paying up for, IMHO. I could be and probaly am incorrect, but my Outlook Contact list does not contain most of the influential movers and shakers in my business who are I can also say are fellow alumni.</p>
<p>Threesdad–the LAC I attended doesn’t hit the top 25, not even sure it is on the list. The alumni network we have is outstanding, and there are several movers and shakers on that list–just not on my “personal” list, but I have every confidence that if I needed to contact those alum for a job, etc. they would be thrilled to talk to me. I was looking up some professionals in DS’s intended career and low and behold the Senior VP in one of the major companies he would be interested in is a former teammate of DH’s and the brother of a good friend of ours—you bet we will forward that contact on to DS at the appropriate time knowing full well that the conversation will start “You are _______'s son, how does Tuesday at 11:00 Am work for an interview”.</p>
<p>Wow. It only took us 66 posts to get to the; it’s not what you know, its who you know -cliche’ And I agree with that 100%</p>
<p>But, giterdone, there are well-situated alums of all kinds of schools all over the place. Not disagreeing that the “who you know” helps, but the "who"s do not all come from “top institutions.” The way I read post #62, that was at least part of the point SteveMA was making (please correct me if I’m wrong, SMA).</p>
<p>Yes, that was my point, the movers and shakers don’t only come from HYP. I don’t care what anyone says, most of the time to get your foot in the door it is “who” you know. Now, you may not know them personally but they know someone that went to your school and that person was top notch so your resume moved to the top of the pile, for example. Once you get into the interview, then it comes down to “what” you know.</p>
<p>To clarify, what I was trying to get at is that insofar as the helpful alumni network is not the sole province of “top schools,” it ought not to be the deciding factor in whether one pays full freight at a top school versus a more manageable (or palatable) amount somewhere else. (I am bracing myself for the inevitable pitting of Harvard’s network against that of Bemidji State.)</p>
<p>^^ ah! gratuitous Minnesota reference. I love it!!</p>
<p>By the way - just returned from a very well executed “residence life” night at University of St. Thomas (if you know Minnesota?). D received practically a full ride merit scholarship from them and that is really what has caused this Public Ivy vs. IS school quandary that I’m in.</p>
<p>Long story short - D had a great time, the school showed extremely well. “Settling” doesn’t seem like the right word anymore. Who knows??? things might work out after all.</p>
<p>What are the other schools and their net costs after financial aid and scholarships?</p>
<p>What is her intended or possible major? (if undecided, does she have a general area that she is most interested in?)</p>
<p>With the above answered, people may better be able to give you specifically applicable information about the choices, rather than general prestige type of discussions.</p>
<p>I do not know Minnesota. I lived in Coon Rapids for a year, though! And I just love to say/think/write “Bemidji.” Best of luck to you and your D, giterdone. Your D obviously has a great advocate in you!</p>
<p>@abs - that’s funny. Cause I use “Bemidji” to poke fun (lovingly, of course) as well. I remember talking to a colleague and asking (rhetorically) “In this economy, who’s gonna show up at a Bemidji state career day?!”</p>
<p>@uc - D’s options are (so far); St. Thomas on near full ride, net cost to us < 5k. Drake at a net cost to us of around 13k. UMich at 35k. Waiting on NU.</p>
<p>D wants to take business, but not just “administration.” She hopes to major in “Organizational Change Mgmt” or some derivative. And we all know that can change.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>St. Thomas has their own MBA program as well as other graduate programs that has gained a lot of notoriety in the upper Midwest. I know several companies that send executives to St. Thomas to get MBA’s. I can’t say that I have any idea exactly what “Organizations Change Magmt” would involve but keep in mind there are 20+ fortune 500 companies in the Minneapolis area that all know St. Thomas.</p>
<p>Basically free at St. Thomas is a deal–I wouldn’t pass it up.</p>
<p>And…movers and shakers from Bemidji State: [Inside</a> the DEA, DEA Leadership](<a href=“http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/leonhart.html]Inside”>http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/leonhart.html)</p>
<p>St. Thomas does have a number of subareas of Business Administration, including one called Operations Management:
[University</a> of St. Thomas : Admissions : Undergraduate : Majors & Academics : Majors & Minors : Business Administration : Operations Management](<a href=“http://www.stthomas.edu/admissions/undergraduate/majorsacademics/majorsminors/businessadministration/operationsmanagement/]University”>http://www.stthomas.edu/admissions/undergraduate/majorsacademics/majorsminors/businessadministration/operationsmanagement/)</p>
<p>Michigan’s $120,000 (for four years) premium over St. Thomas is a lot, and not realistic if cost is a significant concern. St. Thomas for under $20,000 (for four years) seems like the obvious choice if it is a decent fit (academically and otherwise). Drake would be about $32,000 (for four years) more – probably worth checking if she is not completely sold on St. Thomas, but that is still a significant cost difference.</p>
<p>Michigan’s larger size and reputation will likely attract more recruiters to its career center. You may want to ask each school’s career center who visits. Students at smaller schools may have to be more aggressive at seeking internships and jobs (not a huge price to pay in exchange for spending $120,000 less).</p>
<p>Any reason she did not apply to Minnesota public schools?</p>
<p>She is Catholic or ok with the Catholic nature of St. Thomas, including the Faith and Catholic Tradition requirement, right?
[University</a> of St. Thomas : Admissions : Undergraduate : Majors & Academics : Core Curriculum](<a href=“http://www.stthomas.edu/admissions/undergraduate/majorsacademics/corecurriculum/]University”>http://www.stthomas.edu/admissions/undergraduate/majorsacademics/corecurriculum/)</p>
<p>I was wondering the same thing-why is Michigan a possibility at greater expense but the instate public was not on the radar? If a kid was competitive OOS for Michigan, I would think the instate flagship admission would be no problem. If money is no object, that opens up many OOS publics and privates but sounds like money is an issue with this . If so, high stats kids can also go to places like Alabama if money is a concern. I would think schools like Minnesota, Michigan, Northwestern have more national recognition than schools like St. Thomas and Drake.</p>
<p>Minnesota residents also get near-in-state tuition at Wisconsin public universities. There are also some deals in the Dakotas, though these schools are relatively inexpensive to begin with even for out of state students not from states with special agreements for lower tuition.</p>
<p>Like mentioned earlier - you take for granted what’s in your own backyard. UM-Twin Cities was never seriously considered. And they (like UMich) don’t offer much/any merit aid. So, the cost for us would’ve been net 20k’ish/year. And reciprocity would’ve provided for the same from UW-Madison. But the MN/WI rivalry prevented any WI schools from being considered :)</p>
<p>The colleges in the MnSCU system (Mankato, Moorhead, Bemidji, Winona, etc…) don’t have the degree cred of St. Thomas (IMO and from what’s “out there”)</p>
<p>The Catholic “thing” at St. Thomas isn’t overt (around 50% of students are catholic). Like St. Olaf being Lutheran. It’s not at all crammed down your throat. In fact, its barely noticeable, but there if you look for it.</p>
<p>20,000 at UW is a better deal than Michigan tuition then. Good luck with deciding how much you’re able/willing to spend and with the college decision.</p>