Where would Liberal Arts schools fit into National University Ranking?

<p>art vandelay, brassmonkey, huskem55, etc.
You guys are all correct. It was a lousy list. It was originally created for schools that might be linked to jobs in NYC and I now realize that limitation led to the omission of a lot of very good schools. My apologies.</p>

<p>As for LACs, I hope that the OP can see that they more than hold their own with the top National Universities. I also created a thread tracking Law School Admissions and while the analysis has many data gaps, the initial conclusion is that the LACs are very, very competitive with the top National Unis for Law School placement.</p>

<p>Yet another one!</p>

<p>THE TOP 50 FEEDER SCHOOLS
1 Harvard University
Cambridge, Mass.
1,666 358 21.49% There’s no such thing as a sure bet. But for getting into a good grad
school, a Harvard bachelor’s degree remains the next best thing.
2 Yale University
New Haven, Conn.
1,286 231 17.96% What happened to school loyalty? More Yalies (40) are going to Harvard
Law thisfall than Yale Law (30).
3 Princeton University
Princeton, N.J.
1,103 174 15.78% One of the few Ivies without its own professional school, Princeton held
its first grad-school fair last year.
4 Stanford University
Stanford, Calif.
1,692 181 10.70% Based on our numbers, does a particularly strong job at spawning future
MBA stars; med school could use work.
5 Williams College
Williamstown, Mass.
519 47 9.06% An up-and-comer for some time, this “Little Ivy” did better than many of
the actual Ivies.
6 Duke University
Durham, N.C.
1,615 139 8.61% Studentsdo well here but may take their time; only 25% of graduates
here go immediately to a professional school.
7 Dartmouth College
Hanover, N.H.
1,101 93 8.45% Recently put its“credentials file” online to help students track recommendation
letters from professors.
8 Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, Cambridge, Mass.
1,187 92 7.75% One of the best on our list at getting kids into business school, including
more than two dozen into Harvard Business this fall alone.
9 Amherst College, Amherst, Mass. 431 33 7.66% Encourages use of grad-school advising services even after graduation.
10 Swarthmore College
Swarthmore, Pa.
336 25 7.44% Enrollment hastripled in seven years for an honors program here that’s
meant to mimic grad school with small seminars.
11 Columbia University
New York
1,652 118 7.14% You’d think undergradshere would have an edge getting into itselilte law
and medical schools. But several other Ivies sent more students.
12 Brown University, Providence, R.I. 1,506 98 6.51% Sixth-ranked Ivy tilted toward law in our figures; no formal pre-law program.
13 Pomona College, Claremont, Calif. 362 23 6.35% One of our bigger surprises. Nearly half of undergraduates say they’re going
straight to grad school, up from 32% last year.
14 University of Chicago
Chicago
948 59 6.22% Has 11 of its graduates at Wharton this year; its business school has
new program encouraging seniors to return to Chicago for their MBA.
15 Wellesley College
Wellesley, Mass.
585 35 5.98% Close to the Crimson: Pre-business association has field tripsto Harvard
Business, where eight alums started this fall.
16 University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia
2,785 153 5.49% Penn’s medical school (not one of our survey schools) has the highest
percentage of Penn undergrads in six years.
17 Georgetown University
Washington, D.C.
1,666 85 5.10% Its highest numbers were at Harvard Business and Harvard Law—12 studentseach
this fall.
18 Haverford College, Haverford, Pa. 291 13 4.47% Recently reinstated a grad-school orientation program.
19 Bowdoin College, Brunswick, Maine 404 16 3.96% Now has online service to help kids compile grad-school applications.
20 Rice University, Houston 764 29 3.80% President Malcolm Gillis says numbers in “surprising “ findings seem low.
21 Northwestern University
Evanston, Ill.
1,978 73 3.69% Feeding itself: New option gives incoming freshmen in the undergrad engineering
program a slot in at business grad school, too.
22 Claremont McKenna College
Claremont, Calif.
271 10 3.69% Aspiring lawyers could do worse: School’s students landed at Chicago,
Harvard, Michigan and Yale law schools.
23 Middlebury College
Middlebury, Vt.
660 24 3.64% Officials say it’s a “feeder” for Dartmouth’s MBA, but our survey turned
up only two alumsthere this fall (10 are at Harvard B-school).
24 Johns Hopkins Univ., Baltimore 1,272 45 3.54% Med school remains the most popular grad choice here.
25 Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. 3,565 115 3.23% Increased funding to advise women and minorities on grad school.
Spokesman disputes “lasting meaning” of our survey.
26 Bryn Mawr College, Bryn Mawr, Pa. 310 9 2.90% Grad-school history: One of the first Ph.D. programs for women in the U.S.
27 Wesleyan University
Middletown, Conn.
731 21 2.87% Within five yearsof graduating, 80% of Wesleyan grads wind up at some
form of graduate or professional school.
28 California Institute of
Technology, Pasadena, Calif.
249 7 2.81% Lighter on law than most in our top 50.
29 Morehouse College, Atlanta 501 14 2.79% Thisall-male, traditionally black college saysit has has actually scaled
back student trips to top Northeast grad schools.
30 University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Mich.
5,720 156 2.73% Grad schools in our survey “should pay a bit more attention to geographic
diversity,” honors-program chief says.
31 New College of Florida
Sarasota, Fla.
113 3 2.65% At this “honors college” of the Florida state schools, professorsgiv e “narrative
evaluations” instead of letter grades.
32 Vassar College, Poughkeepsie, N.Y. 581 15 2.58% Saysit’s good for future doctors, but none at Harvard or Yale this fall.
33 University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Va.
3,213 82 2.55% The No. 3 public college on our list doesn’t have a university-wide
honorsprog ram.
34 United States Military
Academy, West Point, N.Y.
966 23 2.38% Chief executives, Army-style: A surprising showing at Harvard Business
(13 students this year) boosted West Point’s score.
35 University of Notre Dame
South Bend, Ind.
1,985 45 2.27% Less success at medical schools than some others in our group.
36 Emory University, Atlanta 1,509 33 2.19% Dean says of ranking: “Ivy begets Ivy.”
37 United States Naval Academy
Annapolis, Md.
986 21 2.13% All business, sir: The bulk of its grad-school students ended up at Harvard,
MIT and Wharton business programs.
38 Macalester College
St. Paul, Minn.
406 8 1.97% Less widely known than some Eastern liberal-arts colleges, it pushes internships
in health-care to help med-school prospects.
39 Brandeis University,Waltham, Mass. 815 16 1.96% School says it’s bringing in top grad schools for admissions fair.
40 Bates College, Lewiston, Maine 417 8 1.92% Taps alumni to help students get key internships.
41 University of California,
Berkeley, Berkeley, Calif.
6,198 118 1.90% Saysits kids are accepted to top grad schoolsin far greater numbers
than choose to attend.
42 Barnard College, New York 588 11 1.87% Placed much lower than Columbia, the Ivy it’saffiliated with.
43 Trinity College, Hartford, Conn. 485 9 1.86% Grads of this liberal-arts school seemed to favor MBA programs.
44 Grinnell College, Grinnell, Iowa 337 6 1.78% For kids interested in a specific grad program, networking program ties
them with an alum who attended or worked there.
45 Tufts University, Medford, Mass. 1,246 22 1.77% Far from tops in Boston, but still edged out Boston College (No. 79).
46 Colby College, Waterville, Maine 471 8 1.70% LagsMaine rivals Bates and Bowdoin.
47 Washington University, St. Louis 1,709 29 1.70% Made our top 50, but one of the more expensive schools on our list (tuition
is $28,300 a year). Says it’s “very successful” at placing students.
48 Washingtonand Lee, Lexington, Va. 413 7 1.69% No New Haven: School made our cut—but nobody at Yale Med or Law.
49 Case Western Reserve
University, Cleveland
729 12 1.65% They’re working on it, with new annual conference giving advice on applying
to graduate schools.
50 Reed College, Portland, Ore. 304 5 1.64% Sure, Carnegie Mellon—No. 51 on our list—had more students (19) get
into our top schools, but Reed had slightly higher success rate.</p>

<p>even that list has its problems;</p>

<p>It only takes into account MBA/JD/MD programs, so schools sending more to MA/MS/PhD programs are disadvantaged</p>

<p>Works against tech schools, as engineering degrees aren't included</p>

<p>Heavy east-coast bias</p>

<p>they didn't include stanford as a top business or law school, despite it being consistently the top 1-3</p>

<p>Strongly favors preprofessional (versus intellectual) schools</p>

<p>Their "top 5" med school list is also a little fishy</p>

<p>But: Outside of that, I do feel like it's a pretty good ranking</p>

<p>Uh, I second above posters re: Pomona. Going by SAT's alone, it should be in first tier (Class of 2011 acceptances average SAT 740M, 750R, 740CR).</p>

<p>... and Kemet's ranking list put Pomona in the 6th tier (23rd overall), but this was based on (2000) data of 32% acceptance rate, 34% yield, middle half 1340-1500 SAT, and 84% in top tenth of class. </p>

<p>Compare that to Class of 2011 data <a href="http://www.tsl.pomona.edu/index.php?page=news&article=2412&issue=82%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.tsl.pomona.edu/index.php?page=news&article=2412&issue=82&lt;/a> of 15.8% acceptance rate, 42% (estimated) yield, SAT scores as above, and 90% in top tenth of class.</p>

<p>Pomona was strong then; It's amazing now.</p>

<p>Ranking based on average of following published rankings.
(1) Revealed Preference
(2) WSJ Top 50 Feeder
(3) Brody
(4) Top Tier
(5) LAISSEZ-FAIRE </p>

<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
MIT
Amherst
Williams
Columbia University
Dartmouth
Brown
California Institute of Technology
Swarthmore
University of Pennsylvania
Duke
Northwestern University
Cornell University
University of Chicago
Wellesley
Johns Hopkins
Pomona
Georgetown
Rice
University of California-Berkeley
Middlebury
Bowdoin
University of Virginia
Wesleyan
Notre Dame
University of Michigan
Vassar
Emory
Barnard
Claremont McKenna
NYU
Carleton
Haverford
Harvey Mudd
Smith
UCLA
University of Southern California
Bryn Mawr
Grinnell
Bates
Washington University of St. Louis
University of North Carolina
Davidson
Tufts
Vanderbilt
Carnegie Mellon
Washington and Lee</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=228347%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=228347&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>People will always have problems with rankings, but referring to the above ranking:</p>

<p>NYU above Tufts, WUSTL, UCLA, Harvey Mudd, Haverford, Carleton? I don't think so.</p>

<p>"Bowdowin ahead of Georgetown and ND? Laughable."</p>

<p>Considering that Bowdoin has similar to lower acceptance rate and higher SAT avg than these two, I find that this would stand to reason as opposed to being laughable. You clearly know nothing about Bowdoin to make this statement.</p>

<p>Here's some data I used, though it may not come out in the perfect format...below the data are the lists I created:</p>

<p>School Acceptance Rate SAT midrange Alumni Giving Rate
Harvard 9 1390-1590 44
Yale 9 1390-1580 45
Princeton 10 1370-1590 61
Columbia 10 1320-1520 35
Stanford 11 1340-1540 39
MIT 13 1380-1560 38
Brown 14 1350-1530 38
Dartmouth 16 1350-1550 50
CIT 17 1470-1570 30
Penn 18 1330-1510 40
Pomona 18 1370-1520 49
Williams 19 1320-1520 59
Amherst 19 1330-1530 62
Swarthmore 19 1320-1530 53
Duke 21 1380-1550 44
Washington University 21 1370-1530 38
Georgetown 22 1290-1490 32
Middlebury 22 1270-1480 54
Bowdoin 22 1300-1480 55
Claremont Mckenna 22 1270-1470 49
Berkeley 24 1200-1450 14
Rice 24 1330-1540 37
Cornell 25 1280-1480 35
USC 25 1280-1460 36
UCLA 26 1180-1410 15
Haverford 26 1290-1500 48
Barnard 26 1280-1450 36
JHU 27 1290-1490 35
Notre Dame 27 1230-1460 48
Tufts 27 1340-1480 26
Wesleyan 28 1290-1380 51
Colgate 28 1260-1430 47
Boston College 29 1250-1420 25
Northwestern 30 1320-1500 29
Davidson 30 1250-1440 56
Vassar 30 1300-1460 39
Harvey Mudd 30 1420-1550 39
Emory 32 1270-1430 36
William and Mary 32 1260-1440 25
Carleton 32 1330-1490 65
Bates 32 1270-1400 48
Colby 33 1270-1440 50
Carnegie Mellon 34 1300-1490 25
UNC 34 1200-1390 23
Vanderbilt 34 1280-1460 27
Oberlin 34 1270-1460 36
NYU 36 1210-1410 11
Wellesley 36 1310-1470 52
Virginia 37 1220-1430 26
Chicago 38 1320-1530 33
Macalester 39 1260-1450 45
Reed 40 1280-1460 29
Bryn Mawr 44 1200-1420 44
Grinnell 45 1250-1460 42
Michigan 47 1210-1420 15
Smith 53 1140-1370 35
Mount Holyoke 53 1210-1390 45
University of Texas 57 1100-1350 12
Wisconsin 58 1170-1380 14</p>

<hr>

<p>Order based on Acceptance Rate</p>

<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
Stanford
MIT
Brown
Dartmouth
CIT
Penn
Pomona
Williams
Amherst
Swarthmore
Duke
Washington University
Georgetown
Middlebury
Bowdoin
Claremont Mckenna
Berkeley
Rice
Cornell
USC
UCLA
Haverford
Barnard
JHU
Notre Dame
Tufts
Wesleyan
Colgate
Boston College
Northwestern
Davidson
Vassar
Harvey Mudd
Emory
William and Mary
Carleton
Bates
Colby
Carnegie Mellon
UNC
Vanderbilt
Oberlin
NYU
Wellesley
Virginia
Chicago
Macalester
Reed
Bryn Mawr
Grinnell
Michigan
Smith
Mount Holyoke
University of Texas
Wisconsin</p>

<p>Order based on SAT Midrange:</p>

<p>CIT
Harvey Mudd
Harvard
Yale
MIT
Duke
Princeton
Washington University
Pomona
Dartmouth
Brown
Stanford
Tufts
Rice
Amherst
Penn
Carleton
Swarthmore
Chicago
Columbia
Williams
Northwestern
Wellesley
Carnegie Mellon
Bowdoin
Vassar
Haverford
Georgetown
JHU
Wesleyan
Cornell
USC
Vanderbilt
Reed
Barnard
Middlebury
Claremont Mckenna
Oberlin
Colby
Emory
Bates
Macalester
William and Mary
Colgate
Grinnell
Davidson
Boston College
Notre Dame
Virginia
Michigan
NYU
Mount Holyoke
Berkeley
Bryn Mawr
UNC
UCLA
Wisconsin
Smith
University of Texas</p>

<p>Order Based on Alum Giving Rate</p>

<p>Carleton
Amherst
Princeton
Williams
Davidson
Bowdoin
Middlebury
Swarthmore
Wellesley
Wesleyan
Dartmouth
Colby
Pomona
Claremont Mckenna
Haverford
Bates
Notre Dame
Colgate
Yale
Macalester
Mount Holyoke
Harvard
Duke
Bryn Mawr
Grinnell
Penn
Harvey Mudd
Stanford
Vassar
MIT
Washington University
Brown
Rice
USC
Barnard
Oberlin
Emory
Columbia
JHU
Cornell
Smith
Chicago
Georgetown
CIT
Northwestern
Reed
Vanderbilt
Tufts
Virginia
Carnegie Mellon
William and Mary
Boston College
UNC
Michigan
UCLA
Berkeley
Wisconsin
University of Texas
NYU</p>

<p>And the final grouping in my next post:</p>

<p>Princeton
Yale
Harvard
Dartmouth
Amherst
Pomona
Swarthmore
Williams
MIT
Duke
Stanford
Bowdoin
Brown
Penn
CIT
WashU
Carleton
Columbia
Middlebury
Harvey Mudd
Haverford
Rice
Claremont Mckenna
Wesleyan
Wellesley
Davidson
Georgetown
Tufts
USC
Vassar
Colby
Cornell
Colgate
Notre Dame
Barnard
JHU
Bates
Northwestern
Chicago
Macalester
Emory
Carnegie Mellon
Oberlin
Vanderbilt
Grinnell
Mount Holyoke
Berkeley
Bryn Mawr
Boston College
William and Mary
UCLA
Virginia
UNC
Smith
NYU
Michigan
Wisconsin
University of Texas
Reed</p>

<p>Each school was placed in an ordered column and then the place of each school in each column was added and divided by three. Schools with lower scores are at the top.</p>

<p>Obvious losers from this method are state schools and NYU (which has the lowest alumni giving rate of all the schools chosen here). Schools with higher acceptance rates (UChicago, girls schools) also suffered, so I may approach this again using only SAT midrange and alum giving rate.</p>

<p>Duke above Princeton on the SAT midrange?
I wonder if using the 3 part SAT score would lower the tech schools ranking...guess it would.</p>

<p>Funny you didn't include Bard, which would be very high up based on acceptance rate (29%) and average SAT (1340).</p>

<p>Endowment per student is another mark of a great school and again shows the strength of LAC's.</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_colleges_and_universities_by_endowment%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_colleges_and_universities_by_endowment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Endowment per Student (2005)<br>
1. Princeton University $1,679,380<br>
2. Yale University $1,342,099<br>
3. Harvard University $1,291,051<br>
4. Grinnell College $893,666<br>
5. Pomona College $837,825<br>
6. Bryn Athyn College $803,626 [30]<br>
7. Swarthmore College $789,735<br>
8. Rice University $726,147<br>
9. Stanford University $714,620<br>
10. Amherst College $698,469
11. Williams College $666,193<br>
12. California Institute of Technology $653,726<br>
13. Massachusetts Institute of Technology $650,430<br>
14. Wellesley College $557,243<br>
15. Dartmouth College $475,859<br>
16. Northwestern University $440,068<br>
17. Baylor College of Medicine $426,326<br>
18. Smith College $361,572<br>
19. Emory University $360,662<br>
20. Claremont McKenna College $352,219</p>

<p>^^^^ yes I think that would be an excellent addition to measure the strength of schools. Anyways, I didn't really like the results from my post above because I think acceptance rate (given equal weight to the other two factors) should have been irrelevant, especially when one considers schools with higher acceptance rates like UChicago, women's schools (which will naturally have a higher acceptance rate), and LACs, where even the most selective LACs will have considerably higher acceptance rates than the most selective universities since they are less well known. </p>

<p>Here is a study based solely on
1) SAT average score (not midrange but the middle of the midrange)
2) Alumni giving rate</p>

<p>I think both are measurable factors that are important as they measure (to an extent) the quality of the incoming class and (again to an extent) how satisfied students were with their education there.</p>

<p>Rankings for Undergraduate Colleges</p>

<p>Tier 1
Princeton
Amherst
Carleton
Williams
Harvard
Yale
Dartmouth</p>

<p>Tier 2
Pomona
Swarthmore
Harvey Mudd
Duke
Bowdoin
MIT
Wellesley
Middlebury
CIT
Washington U.
Stanford
Haverford
Davidson
Brown
Rice
Penn
Claremont Mckenna
Colby
Wesleyan</p>

<p>Tier 3
Chicago
Columbia
Vassar
Macalester
Notre Dame
Colgate
Bates
Grinnell
JHU
Cornell
Northwestern
Georgetown
USC
Barnard
Oberlin
Tufts
Bryn Mawr
Mount Holyoke
Emory</p>

<p>Tier 4
Carnegie Mellon
Reed
Vanderbilt
William and Mary
Boston College
Virginia
Smith</p>

<p>Tier 5
Berkeley
Michigan
UNC
UCLA
NYU
Wisconsin
University of Texas</p>

<p>Again, the major losers are state schools, which is unfortunate but a consequence of the method of comparison.</p>

<p>how can you forget Colorado College? Ranked ahead of a lot of those other LAC on both usnews and princeton review.</p>

<p>yeah sorry there are probably a few (including Colorado College, Bard, Hamilton, etc.) that could also go on there somewhere (probably tier 4 or 5 though by the time I went through the numbers) but I got really tired.</p>

<p>LAC's like Holy Cross and Bucknell should be included with their alumni giving rates of 50% and acceptance levels in the 30% range.</p>

<p>I think you way overrate Carleton & Colby.</p>

<p>Even as a Carleton alum, I'd say that it probably belongs in Tier 2, and Colby in Tier 3. Cal Tech, MIT, and Stanford also should definitely displace Dartmouth from Tier 1.</p>