<p>As I have seen so much of this so recently in my job, i.m.o. it is mostly the teacher’s fault, unless the principal has stated that “we don’t teacher grammar & writing here.” (In which case, were I an English teacher, I would not have taken the job in the first place.)</p>
<p>Most of my students in the last 3 years have told me that their teachers have not taught them such writing skills recently, now, or sometimes ever. More and more teachers of writing, language arts, and literature, are issuing multiple choice tests regarding the literature content, and that’s it. The only writing that many of them are being asked to do is writing that requires no analytical critique, such as personal journaling, reading logs, and – the newest fad – “Response to Literature.” It’s truly appalling and inexcusable. Go into a different field if you believe you “have no time” to correct writing. I don’t care what your class size is, or how many classes you have. That could be a legitimate equity concern if an English teacher has to spend exponentially more time doing the same job as a math teacher or science teacher must spend. Maybe that’s a legitimate union grievance: same pay for unequal hours, or disproportional work load, however you put it. (A petition for fewer classes, given greater time involvement outside class.) Other than that, suck it up. (Spoken by a teacher.)</p>
<p>Yes…but, it’s been my observation that often it’s the control freak, but low-level thinking (often) female teachers who are “silly rule crazy.” These types go get their admin degrees, so they can move into administration. </p>
<p>Whenever parents have to talk to any of these types, it’s like talking to a chair. Rarely do these principals have the discernment skills to make thoughtful decisions about serious matters or teacher issues. Their decisions are often emotion-based and have unintended negative consequences for the school and students.</p>
<p>This is going to annoy some/many…but we’ve had better luck with male principals. I’m not saying things have been perfect there, but male principals don’t seem as territorial as some female principals are. Of course, there are exceptions…</p>
<p>“And, even more rarely would an administrator sit-in on the classroom day after day observing. In reality, during the rare times that admin does observe to determine such a problem, they come in, sit for about an hour or so, then they leave…and that’s it.”</p>
<p>Its totally irrelevant what your sil or you think. This is fact. I didn’t say the administrator is sitting in there all day. The administrator is going into that classroom every single day until the teacher gets it right. My wife is that administrator by the way.</p>
<p>No, berryberry61, it really isn’t. My job is spelled out in my school manual and my contract. Perhaps it is in the schools in your area, but not mine.</p>
<p>I will only write a positive letter of recommendation. I will not write a bad recommendation, therefore, I will not write a recommendation for a student I cannot recommend (hence the term “recommendation”). To do anything else would be dishonest and ruin my credibility with the colleges, and this would ultimately hurt future students. </p>
<p>As far as comparing writing a recommendation for a student to paying a teacher, the two are not remotely comparable. </p>
<p>That’s the last time I will address this. I am fully aware of what is part of my job and what isn’t. I don’t need to justify it.</p>
<p>And, also as the OP and as my final post on this thread, I thank those of you who responded to my original post and gave honest, thoughtful information. I appreciate that you took the time to answer honestly. To those who pm’d me, thank you so much for the support. </p>
<p>The last thing I wanted to do was turn this into a teacher/administrator bashing thread, but that’s what happened. The vitriol is overwhelming. No one is helped by this.</p>
<p>Please stop responding. It’s time to let this thread go.</p>
<p>Please stop responding. It’s time to let this thread go</p>
<p>Isn’t that kinda like saying " I don’t know why you always have to have the last word", everytime someone tries to say something in an argument?</p>
<p>pageturner-- I really wouldn’t worry about it not helping anyone. By the time people find this website at least thier first kid has pretty much made it all the way through the system and they already have an opinion. Mostly there are only a few truly negative posts on this thread and mostly we all value the position of teacher highly enough to fight for the teachers in our communities…None of us are going to be swayed is probably the bottom line simply because we’re already done and we know what we know.</p>
<p>But, rest assured, most of us value the great teachers very highly. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>I think the lack of posts about how a particular teacher “opened my eyes” or “gave my daughter a role model” is telling. This is a case of the dog not barking, in spite of 12 or 13 years exposed to teachers several hours a day.</p>
<p>I think the lack of posts about how a particular teacher “opened my eyes” or “gave my daughter a role model” is telling. This is a case of the dog not barking, in spite of 12 or 13 years exposed to teachers several hours a day.</p>
<p>I think we could assume that on a board focused on continuing a childs education past K-12, that every child who has been on these boards or a mentor/parent has, has had at least ONE teacher or mentor or coach who has been supportive or influential in some way.</p>
<p>What ** I think** is telling is that the numerous stories told on these boards that highlight these mentors, are not noticed as much as the tales of duress in the educational system.</p>
<p>There has been a generational change in the teacher population, IMO.
My post-war generation benefited from a time when, if you were a smart, curious woman, you most likely became a teacher. Other options were just not that salient. This applied to smart, educated African-Americans as well. Now a smart woman is very unlikely to become a teacher.
Teachers overwhelmingly graduate from second and third tier colleges, weren’t very good students themselves, and from the numbers I’ve seen, are among the lowest scoring on standardized tests at the schools they do attend.
Add to that the cushy appeal of a civil service life style (I’ve been there myself), and you can understand why there aren’t very many role models or mentors among them.</p>
<p>^ wow, what a vicious stereotype. As a highly educated graduate with several degrees who graduated from a reach U, I deeply resent the above prejudicial and ignorant remark. I think pageturner is right.</p>
<p>You don’t know to whom you are speaking, on this thread, or elsewhere, and probably, given the nature of your judgments, I am way smarter than you, and probably other teachers on this thread are as well.</p>
<p>Good for you, epiphany - that’s pretty much what I was thinking. I’m pretty sure I know quite a few smart women who became teachers. Your comments show your ignorance, danas.</p>
<p>My son most definitely had a few teachers who were a very positive influence on him. In particular, there was a middle school English teacher who was one of those old time educators who viewed her job as a vocation. She was very intelligent, articulate, and well-read. Also, by the way, she taught her classes grammar and vocabulary when no one else in the school did anymore. I’d credit her with helping my son do very well on the SAT, especially the sentence correction portion. She recognized my son’s deep frustration with the low academic level of his other classes and encouraged him not to check out intellectually. One way she did this was by selecting novels she thought he’d enjoy from her personal collection and giving them to him to read and keep. S also had an algebra teacher who was superb. Among other things, she taught her students to be very neat and precise in their work, and instilled a discipline for detail which served them very well in later math and science classes. I’d say that his best teachers were the ones nearing retirement age.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, my D says that she’s never had a teacher who strongly impacted her in as positive way. In fact, she really struggled trying to think of who should write her college recommendations. Both of the teachers mentioned above retired before my D entered the middle school, and across the board in elementary school and beyond her teachers were not of the same quality. More than anything, the biggest difference I noted in her teachers (who were younger) compared with my son’s teachers, was a lack of professionalism. My daughter had a really tough time respecting many of them because they shared too much of their personal lives and seemed to really NEED to be liked/viewed a peer by their students. They also seemed more prone to silly wastes of time like taking the kids on regular fields trips to the restaurant across the street or to arcades, and “teaching” junk subjects like astrology, personality types, etc.</p>
<p>Playing devi’s advocate here re: Danas post #250
Is it judgment or is it fact? Ephiphany, because you graduated from Reach U with several degrees may or may not have any relevance to danas remark that “teachers overwhelmingly graduate from second and third tier colleges.” Teachers could in fact have “overwhelmingly graduated from these colleges” and you still would have been from Reach U.</p>
<p>In my state, the two schools (public) which graduate the overwhelming number of teachers are in fact third tier schools; one basically open enrollment and the other definitely open enrollment.</p>
<p>Within the last two years I also read some report that stated that education majors did in fact have some of the lowest SAT/ACT scores of all entering majors. Sorry, I don’t have the source right here at hand.</p>
<p>I believe the comment that there was a generational change is valid. My mom is very smart. She believed her choices in the early 1960’s included becoming either a nurse or a teacher. A smart woman today does indeed have far greater choices.</p>
<p>^These are all anecdotal generalities and guesses, not helpful to solid evaluation, and hurtful to those who don’t fit the narrow-minded stereotypes repeated on this page more than once now.</p>
<p>One of my kids’ Catholic schools had to fire a middle-school teacher because she wouldn’t assign any essay writing assignments. It takes time to properly grade essays and to “use the red pen” and show corrections. She wouldn’t spend the time, so out she went.</p>
<p>At my kids’ Catholic high school, I was very pleased with their English teachers. Their school uses the MLA standards. They had to write essays on a regular basis, and they were graded properly. Both of my boys are excellent writers, and I have them to thank (Thanks Mrs. P, Dr. A, and Mrs. D). During my DS2’s graduation speech he said, “Pleasing God can’t be as hard as pleasing Mrs. P.” LOL</p>
<p>I know parents whose children are at other schools have complained that when their kids “graded” essays come home, they are appalled that grammar, syntax, subject/verb agreement, and tense errors were not marked wrong. Instead, the teachers just put an “A” on top, and therefore the kid thinks he can write. LOL</p>
<p>Students need to know how to write a proper essay of various lengths - 3 para, 5 para, 1200 word, 200 word, etc. They need to know how to include a thesis, supporting points, and a conclusion. They need to know how to transition between paragraphs. Furthermore, they need to know how to properly cite their references.</p>
<p>My grandmother was the second youngest of 12 kids. She grew up on a poor farm in west Texas. She was the first in her family to attend college. After getting her bachelor’s degree, she worked on her master’s in chemistry at the University of Texas in the late 1920s. About that time, she met her future husband and dropped out of school. She went on to become an excellent high school algebra teacher. </p>
<p>In my case, I got my bachelor’s and master’s degrees in structural engineering in the mid-1980s. I met my future husband in grad school, but we both finished our degrees and I went on to become an engineer. I think this IS an illustrative case. If my grandmother had been born 60 years later, I think she would have gone on to become a scientist, not a teacher. If I’d been born 60 years earlier, I certainly would not have become an engineer, so teaching would have been an attractive profession.</p>
<p>I don’t think I’m being hurtful, just describing the situation. My younger sister knew from an early age that she wanted to be a teacher. She got her master’s degree in special education and has been a teacher for 20 years now. In the summer, she trains other teachers.</p>
<p>I wanted to share a happy-ish story… during my k-12, I had mostly excellent teachers. Some mediocre teachers, and one that graded completely unfairly. In elementary school, I had a 12 person class in grade 3, and it slowly expanded. We had 19 (i think) in grade 6. All of us from 3rd grade stayed together (except one kid who moved away). Last December (which was roughly 6 months after college graduation, assuming it took 4 years), one of the kids arranged a reunion type thing, and we had about 12 of the 19 students, and the 3rd grade and 5th/6th grade teacher. (We had the same teacher for 5th and 6th grade). We were at a restaurant for a couple hours having food, drinks, and good times.</p>
<p>There’s a lot of strange overgeneralizing going on here. In D’s high school, a large percentage of the teachers are MEN. So, let’s just start there, for example.</p>
<p>Few teachers in our area have anything less than a masters degree. Including at the jr high level…So, then, there’s that, as well.</p>
<p>And therein Pageturner lies the problem that many have referred to on this thread.</p>
<p>You are hiding behind restrictive work rules crafted by a union not interested in the students you teach and you are unwilling to view things from the students and parents perspective.</p>
<p>Sorry it ain’t my job does not cut it. if you believe it does, put yourself down in the bad teacher category with that type of attitude</p>