Where's the love for teachers?

<p>Just read this article today in our local paper - some of the examples quoted seem apropos to the discussion here:</p>

<p>Nicholas D. Kristof: Democrats are flunking when it comes to our schools
Knuckling under to the teacher unions, they protect the incompetent at the expense of our children
Friday, October 16, 2009</p>

<p>The Democratic Party has battled for universal health care this year, and over the decades it has admirably led the fight against poverty – except in the one way that would have the greatest impact.</p>

<p>Good schools constitute a far more potent weapon against poverty than welfare, food stamps or housing subsidies. Yet, cowed by teacher unions, Democrats have too often resisted reform and stood by as generations of disadvantaged children have been cemented into an underclass by third-rate schools.</p>

<p>President Barack Obama and his education secretary, Arne Duncan, are trying to change that – and one test for the Democrats will be whether they embrace administration reforms that teachers’ unions are already sniping at.</p>

<p>It’s difficult to improve failing schools when you can’t create alternatives like charter schools and can’t remove inept or abusive teachers. In New York City, for example, unions ordinarily prevent teachers from being dismissed for incompetence – so the schools must pay failed teachers their full salaries to sit year after year doing nothing in centers called “rubber rooms.”</p>

<p>A devastating article in The New Yorker by Steven Brill examined how New York City tried to dismiss a fifth-grade teacher for failing to correct student work, follow the curriculum, manage the class or even fill out report cards. The teacher claimed that she was being punished for union activity, but an independent observer approved by the union confirmed the allegations and declared the teacher incompetent. The school system’s lawyer put it best: “These children were abused in stealth.”</p>

<p>The effort to remove the teacher is expected to cost about $400,000, and the outcome is uncertain. In New York City, with its 80,000 teachers, arbiters have removed only two for incompetence alone in the last couple of years. We tolerate failed teachers – and failed arbiters – as long as it’s not our own kids who suffer.</p>

<p>In another case cited by Mr. Brill, the union hailed its defense of a high-school teacher – who had passed out in front of her class, allegedly smelling of alcohol, with even the principal unable to rouse her. The union fought to secure her return to teaching, Mr. Brill wrote, until she passed out again, and her “water bottle” turned out to contain alcohol.</p>

<p>In California, we see the same pathology – as long as the students in question are impoverished and marginalized, with uncomplaining parents, they are allowed to endure the kind of teachers and schools that most of us would never tolerate for our own kids.</p>

<p>A Los Angeles Times article this year recounted how a teacher rebuked an eighth grader who had been hospitalized for slashing his wrists in a suicide attempt. “Carve deeper next time,” the teacher allegedly advised. He was even said to have added: “You can’t even kill yourself.” A review board blocked the termination of that teacher.</p>

<p>The Los Angeles Times investigation found that it is so expensive to remove teachers that the authorities typically try to do so only in cases of extreme misconduct – not for something as “minor” as incompetence.</p>

<p>Of course, there are many other obstacles to learning: lack of safety, alcohol and narcotics and troubled homes and uninterested parents. But there’s mounting evidence that even in such failing schools, the individual teacher makes a vast difference.</p>

<p>Research has underscored that what matters most in education – more than class size or spending or anything – is access to good teachers. A study found that if black students had four straight years of teachers from the top 25 percent of most effective teachers, the black-white testing gap would vanish in four years.</p>

<p>There are no silver bullets, but researchers are gaining a better sense of what works in education for disadvantaged children: intensive preschool, charter schools with long hours, fewer certification requirements that limit entry to the teaching profession, higher compensation to attract and retain good teachers, objective measurement to see who is effective, more flexibility in removing those who are ineffective.</p>

<p>Unions are wary in part because school administrators can be arbitrary and unfair. Yet there are some signs that the unions are rethinking their positions in welcome ways. The National Education Association has announced an initiative to improve teaching in high-poverty high schools, and the American Federation of Teachers is experimenting with teacher evaluation that includes student performance data.</p>

<p>Neither initiative reflects sufficient urgency. But let’s hope this is a new beginning. I’m hoping the unions will come round and cooperate with evidence-based reforms, using their political clout to push to raise teachers’ salaries rather than to protect ineffective teachers.</p>

<p>This is the central front in the war on poverty, the civil rights issue of our time. Half a century after Brown v. Board of Education, isn’t it time to end our “separate but equal” school systems?</p>

<p>Nicholas D. Kristof is a syndicated columnist for The New York Times.</p>

<p>berryberry61
-Pageturner’s response does not indicate that she is a bad teacher. On the contrary, she is simply and quite eloquently, in my opinion, affirming that she has standards and professional ethics. Writing a recommendation for a student that she does not feel warrants it, is not looking out for that child’s best interest or the interests of the other students in her school. Clearly, she has integrity in her work. Isn’t that something that you profess to WANT in a teacher? Should she compromise her ethics to get your child into college simply because you and your child feel entitled to her recommendation? It is not her job. Period. It is clear from her other posts that she is not the kind of teacher who teaches strictly by the contract. Suggesting that she is a bad teacher is petty and mean and, in my opinion, diminishes your credibility.</p>

<p>Danas-
I have been following this thread with interest from the beginning and have held my tongue. Until now. To suggest that the quality of a teacher is directly correlated to the “tier” of the college that they attended is absurd. Are you suggesting that the majority of the “good” teachers attended top tier schools and had stellar SATs? I have been teaching for 25 years and I have seen no relationship between the prestige of the teacher’s education and the level of their teaching abilities.<br>
Has it occurred to you that many teachers choose their undergraduate and master’s programs (which, in my state, is required within 5 years of initial licensure) for practical reasons? Anticipating a salary of 35-40k dollars can make one hesitant to assume large loans. In my state, we have a small liberal arts college (third tier…how embarrassing!) that is our flagship for teaching programs. When it opened, it opened as a teaching college and the programs are, to this day, highly regarded. In fact, I am currently enrolled in their master’s program and I am proud to say that I am a part of that. I would challenge you to think about the teachers that you have found to be “good” according to your standards, find out where they went to school and see if your theory is supported by evidence. My guess is that it won’t be. I’ve been doing this job a long time and I know that the great majority of the teachers that I have worked with are genuinely invested in their work and love their students. I have never heard a teacher put a child down in a teacher’s room, either. On the contrary, we all join in celebrating their triumphs and successes. There are many qualities that I feel make a great teacher;passion for learning, a caring and empathetic heart, and a willingness to give without reservation. Great communication skills and a charismatic personality don’t hurt, either. But an Ivy league education? No. That attitude just smacks of elitism and superficiality.</p>

<p>^Pageturner should not compromise her ethics. I had to take an oath to uphold the ethics of the profession when I got my first set of teaching credentials. If you’re not ethical, you’re not of much use to your students, and how dare you call yourself a role model.</p>

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<p>Agree with that.</p>

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<p>More with the stereotyping and insults? Those of us with Ivy grads have “superficial” sons and daughters?</p>

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<p>I would agree with that. However, I would venture to say that there is probably a relationship between a teacher’s SAT score and the level of her teaching abilities. For too long, it has been too easy to get into an education major. Too many low SAT students have been allowed into the el-ed majors and subject-ed majors. It didn’t used to be this way. The standards for entrance into education majors need to be raised.</p>

<p>Epiphany
My comment was that the ATTITUDE that an Ivy league education equates with good teaching skills is elitist. I was not suggesting that anyone’s sons or daughters were. I do not know your sons or daughters and therefore would not make a character assessment about them.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Seriously, anyone who truly read (and comprehended) EPTR’s post would understand that he was not insulting anyone with an Ivy education. The post clearly indicated that someone who simply assumes that an Ivy league educated person would make the best teacher is elitist and superficial. Certainly, the best teachers can come from many different colleges. One doesn’t have to go to an East Coast school in order to become the best educator.</p>

<p>My reading comprehension is outstanding, and my understanding of writing even better. The comment about ivy education was not contextualized in the way you or the poster claim. Not even close.</p>

<p>Nevermind. I’ll go back to trying to dissuade my son from going into the education field. </p>

<p>fwiw: my kid’s best K-12 teachers were both NMSF’s, back in the dark ages, before prep was invented. And the absolute worst teacher in our HS has as PhD from Cal. Brilliant, but…</p>

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<p>My DD (Ivy League educated and teaching) and I were recently discussing a teacher she had for a difficult subject in high school. This teacher had taught at the university level in another country and was clearly brilliant, but a poor teacher because she could not communicate what she knew. DD observed that being smart and well-educated is not a predictor for being a successful teacher. There are skills and personality traits that are needed – e.g. the ability to communicate, the ability to engage the attention of others, the ability to keep control of a room full of students, etc. – that have little to do with the level of intelligence or college attended. </p>

<p>Teachers need to be smart enough and educated enough to really understand the subject matter they are teaching. In other words, an algebra teacher needs to be smart enough to understand and teach algebra, but a degree from MIT is not needed to successfully do that. </p>

<p>I was mesmerized by my son’s English teacher at Back to School night. I know his degree is not from somewhere impressive, but he’s darn impressive. He has the gift for teaching – that je ne sais quoi that is hard to describe, but instantly recognizable when you see it. He’s obviously intelligent enough to more than keep up with his honors students and he struck me as someone who has a love for learning himself. There are people with degrees from top universities who are wonderful teachers, but it’s because they have the whole package – not just the degree.</p>

<p>I’m on a Mac computer right now, and I have no idea how you copy and paste text using this kind of computer, but going back to my question regarding who is at fault for the lack of writing skills in college students – I guess you also have to wonder what kinds of people are on admissions committees at colleges and universities. :/</p>

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<p>EPTR - sorry, when pageturner says “No, berryberry61, it really isn’t. My job is spelled out in my school manual and my contract.” she is hiding behind her union work rules and not acting as a good teacher should </p>

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<p>I never suggested she compromise her ethics - what I sad was if asked by a student to write a recommendation, she should not be dishonest in the recommendation, but she should present the student in the best light she honestly can. I am sure that for even those kids Pageturner or others feel are slackers , they can find something decent to focus on. If they truly can not (ie the student is Satan incarnate), then they should tell the student (or parents or GC of said student) sorry, I am not sure I would be the best person to write your recommendation - rather than saying as Pageturner asserts, its not my job.</p>

<p>Pageturner’s insistence and attitude that it isn’t in my contract IMO puts her in that bad teacher category in this regard</p>

<p>Writing college recommendation letters may not be in a teacher’s contract, but it is most definitely part of their job. Who in the world else COULD write a “teacher recommendation”? Until such time as the college admissions process is revamped so that rec letters are no longer required, it will continue to be their job if they care about their students. However, it seems that more and more teachers are coming to resent having to do it. Maybe the percentager of kids going to college is higher now than it used to be and they really have too many to do? It’s possible it is becoming a huge burden. All the same, what are the students supposed to do? For example, D just found out this week that the man who is supposed to be writing her rec. letters was complaining in one of his classes about having to do it. Where does that leave her? Hopefully not in the reject pile.</p>

<p>How many recommendations should they be required to write. My D’s graduating class had 900 students. Is it okay for a teacher to limit the number of recommendations they will write to say the first 20 students that ask or should a teacher be obligated to write say 100 recommendations?</p>

<p><<eptr -=“” sorry,=“” when=“” pageturner=“” says=“” “no,=”" berryberry61,=“” it=“” really=“” isn’t.=“” my=“” job=“” is=“” spelled=“” out=“” in=“” school=“” manual=“” and=“” contract.“=”" she=“” hiding=“” behind=“” her=“” union=“” work=“” rules=“” not=“” acting=“” as=“” a=“” good=“” teacher=“” should=“”>></eptr></p>

<p>I will not argue that there are expectations in the teaching profession that go above and beyond the contract and job description. I, myself, along with most of the teachers I know, routinely go above and beyond those written constraints. We don’t think twice about it. What pageturner is trying to get across, I believe, is that writing recommendations is not part of her JOB. It is not required. It may be an expectation on the part of the student, administration and parents but an expectation is not the same thing as requirement . I may expect that my neighbor will be willing to feed my goldfish while i am away from home but she is certainly not required to. It is the sense of entitlement that sets many teachers teeth on edge. A child is not, in my opinion, entitled to a recommendation that “puts him in the best light” and if you can’t understand why that would water down REAL recommendations…well, I don’t know what to tell you.</p>

<p>I don’t know. Is it okay for students to limit the homework they will do to the homework assigned during the schoolweek or do they have to do weekend and vacation assignments? Probably if they want a passing grade, they’re going to have to work on Sundays, evenings and over thier vacations, as well. Interesting. No? If I am an accountant, is it necessary for me to put in more hours in March and April, or would it be okay for me to just do it 9-5? </p>

<p>If high school teachers believe that they aren’t obligated to write recommendations for the students who gave up thier evenings and thier sundays and thier vacations, I’m not really sure what to say about that. Seems bizarre to me.</p>

<p>Mostly just seems like a typical union response, which is a problem. Maybe high school districts better start to put that in the contract, too. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>poet- the teachers I know do give up their nights and weekends. They use the time to prepare lesson plans, grade papers, some coach (yes they get paid but it works out to minimum wage when you do the hourly calculation). They are willing to write recommendations but most are requested during a two month period of time. I happen to think it is reasonable for a teacher to limit the number they will write and also to refuse to write one for a student they do not feel is deserving of a recommendation.</p>

<p>Are all bosses required to write recommendations for employees?</p>

<p>One good thing about the common application is that it lessens the workload for teachers writing recs, especially as more students apply to more schools. I think colleges who do not use the common app should still use the common app form for teacher and counselor recs. As with everything else, the advantage goes to students in small private and public schools because teachers have more time to spend on fewer recs. At DS’s large high school, they make a big point of cautioning the kids to ask teachers for recommendations well in advance and to remember that this is a favor that is being done. It is an odd situation for colleges to demand something that teachers are not required to do. There is always the element of the luck of the draw – that a student had a teacher who liked them for 2 or more years, that a student had teachers who loved him/her but those teachers left before senior year, etc.</p>

<p>Most of the teachers I know who coach went into teaching so they COULD coach. I don’t really care if they want to limit or refuse. My kids aren’t the type who have ever had trouble getting a rec, and have, in fact, had teachers offer before they even asked…more teachers than they needed, actually, want to write thier recs…that’s not the point.</p>

<p>The point is that pageturner is acting as if she is doing a “favor” by writing recs when those of us who pay taxes, who fight for teachers pay increases, who have spent endless ours on this over the years, with no renumeration, are definitely of the belief that writing these recs is a part of the job.</p>

<p>Yes we buy gifts for the teachers who do these things and our children write thank you notes. But, I really resent the implication that writing recommendations is not a part of the job of a high school teacher, and I’m not impressed with the attitude, at all. And it goes a long way to show why parents are pretty “over” the myth of the long suffering teacher, who in most cases makes more than the median income for thier state, as a starting wage.</p>

<p>In answer to your question, however, about bosses? If the employers of of a “boss” require that the “boss” write recs, then the boss is required to write them. If he chooses not to? He will be free to collect unemployment, unless of course he is a member of a “boss” union, which frankly does not exist on the planet earth. For good reason.</p>

<p>Most jobs have things that are not in the job description. That’s why workers can create havoc in a company by “working to rule” rather than going on strike. I doubt that college profs have “writing recs” as part of their job description. But they, too, must write recs for students. Some are also asked to write promotion reviews both for their own junior colleagues or for profs at other universities, which means having to read a candidate’s entire publications. Again, not in their job description.
Do high school teachers really have to write hundreds of recs? If a school has a graduating class of 1000, which is a large high school, one must assume that there is not just one English teacher for all the 1000 seniors. How many recs would an English teacher (one of the teachers most likely to be asked to write recs) be asked to write ordinarily? </p>

<p>As for bosses writing recs for their employees, in a lot of situations, the employees do not want their bosses to know that they are looking for another job!</p>

<p>Actually, I really think if a teacher can’t find 20 or so kids he/she WANTS to write a rec for? They should just get out of the profession. They don’t belong there.</p>