<p>Hello everyone, I'm an Australian student hoping to be accepted into an American college for Fall 2012. I need to work out a list of colleges that I'd like to apply to, and I've been having some trouble cutting it down. I'm thinking about pursuing Medicine, so I'd prefer colleges with good Pre-Med or Natural Science programs. What do you think?</p>
<p>Academics:
*ACT - English: 32 Math: 35 Reading: 36 Science: 36 --> Composite: 35 (First attempt)
*Predicted National Percentile: 99.90 (Equivalent to GPA: 4.0)
*Top score in state for Computer Science (Taken as an accelerated Junior).</p>
<p>Awards/Honours
*Robocup Junior Australia National Champions, State Champions (3x)
*National Chemistry Quiz - Certificate of Excellence (100%)
*Australian Computational Linguistic Olympiad - Gold Medal
*Full HS Scholarship (Private College)
*Musical Tuition Scholarship (Private College)</p>
<p>ECs:
*Robotics Team Member (4 Years)
*Robotics Team Mentor (2 Years)
*Interschool Debating Team Member (4 Years)
*Interschool Chess Team (4 Years)
*Various volunteer work with charities (connected to school)
*Student Council House Captain
*Various orchestral and ensemble involvement (8 Years, Cello) </p>
<p>As you probably already know, this is difficult because there are lots of small and large schools with great sciences and pre-med but they may not all be known for robotics and have good music departments. If you just want to do some music and don’t need an outstanding department that would make a difference. Small places like Williams, Middlebury and Grinnell are great for science and Williams is probably the best known for music. None of them have robotics that I now of. Carnegie Mellon is great for robotics and should be excellent for science but the schools are quite separate and I don’t know about the music opportunities. MIT, of course, would be great and there are interesting music things going on there as well as science and robotics. (Check if they have early action or just early decision). Stanford could be good for all three and it has early action so you could apply and not be committed if you get in. Purdue is supposed to be good for robotics and would be easier to get into than the above. Another possibility which is a bit easier to get into than MIT is Johns Hopkins…dont’ know about robotics there but the music conservatory is excellent (you have to check what access non-majors have). Also check out University of Rochester and University of Pittsburgh to see if they fit the bill----they would be a little easier to get into as well.</p>
<p>Thanks for your help Hitch
Yeah, sorry if I wasn’t completely clear - the most important thing for me is Pre-Med/Natural Science, I see Robotics and Music more as hobbies e.g. I’d like to be able to join a Robotics Club or an Orchestra.
I don’t really mind how “difficult” it is to get into these colleges, I’d rather go for matches and reaches as I always have backup options in Australia. I’ve noticed that neither your post (or a PM that was sent to me) have mentioned Ivy League colleges at all. I’m not saying I’m focused on the Ivies, but I’m more interested in why you haven’t mentioned it - do you think that they are too much of a reach for me to get into?</p>
<p>UCLA is VERY adept at all of the fields you mentioned. It’s a top 5 public school and top 25 overall. You could go for one of the ivies if you’d like, because I think you’d have a shot… but a school like UCLA is probably your best bet for getting a great all-around college experience. You’re going to be getting the same, if not better, preparation that you’d get at any ivy, plus multiple opportunities to delve into both music and robotics, while being within sight of America’s second most exciting city (with that thought, maybe you should consider NYU too!).</p>
<p>Remember, you could always go to undergrad in LA and then med school in NYC… it’s far from standard practice to remain at your undergrad school for post-grad work. You just need to weigh all of the things that matter to you and make a decision based on that.</p>
<p>–On a side note, if I were to apply to an Ivy, it’d be Columbia. It’s an excellent school in the heart of NYC and I DO think you could get in. I have a bias, because that’s my favorite place in the country… but looking at the others, I don’t think I’d want to be in the worst part of Philly (Penn) or a stuck up, rich neighborhood (Princeton). Location is something you should consider… not just for the obvious perks of things to do, but for job opportunities and recruiting; this is why LA also makes a ton of sense.</p>
<p>Do you want a large or small school? Urban, rural or suburban? Are there financial considerations?
Penn is not in the worst part of Philly. It is actually quite nice around the area of Penn. “Stuck-up” is in the eye of the beholder also.
Yes, you could get into an Ivy but Stanford and MIT might be better for your robotics interest.
Yes, you could pursue music at CMU.</p>
<p>with your budget, the UC’s are out of range for you. They don’t give aid to int’ls. NYU also wouldn’t work. </p>
<p>** Folks, the student has a budget of only $20k per year.**</p>
<p>You’ll have to apply to 2 different sets of schools…</p>
<p>1) Schools that meet need for int’ls. These are top schools that are the hardest to get accepted to.</p>
<p>2) Schools that will give big merit for int’ls. There are a few that give big merit to int’ls. They are mostly mid-tiers and lower, but some have very good science programs, so they would be fine for a pre-med student.</p>
<p>BTW…are you aware that int’ls rarely get accepted to US medical schools? Most will accept NONE…a few will accept a tiny number (like 1 or 2) each year with amazing hooks. And, if you are a lucky int’l that gets accepted, you have to deposit the full funds for all the COA for all 4 years of med school up front (about $300k). </p>
<p>If your plan is to go to a US med school, then that’s not likely going to work. ** US Med schools’ mission is to educate future American doctors. **</p>
<p>Note: Canadian students aren’t always considered to be int’ls for med schools, so the info above doesn’t necessarily apply to them.</p>
<p>MIT and Stanford are harder to get into than some Ivies, so I wasn’t steering you away from Ivies necessarily. And with a 35 ACT you would have a shot at them. However, as has been mentioned, you should apply to an array to see what aid you get. Merit aid will be more available farther down the U.S News ladder. Beyond pre-med, think what you want in terms of size and location. Dartmouth, for example, would be great for pre-med and it’s smaller than other Ivies----if you don’t mind rural. Columbia certainly would be an IVY to aim for. Very slightly easier to get into-----Wash. U. and Tufts. It’s hard for us to know how far down the “tiers” you would go before deciding you’d rather stay in Australia. Are you considering Canada----McGill in particular?</p>
<p>Wow thanks everyone, your support and advice is really appreciated
Well, my parents can’t afford much more than $20K/year as far as financial considerations are concerned. As for school type, I’m not really sure. Where I live there really isn’t much choice for university (basically only University of Western Australia), and I haven’t visited any American colleges (and probably won’t be able to either).
Yes, I am aware of this. Medicine is a postgraduate degree in Australia as well, so either way I would have to do an undergraduate degree. I figure that I should attempt to get the best undergraduate experience that I can, even if I have to come back to Australia to do Medicine.
Why is Columbia, in particular, considered such a great college for me?
Thanks for that, I’ve been trying to look for rankings sites but it’s hard to tell which ones are credible. Are there any that are considered particularly accurate?
I haven’t considered McGill actually (I’ve just been focusing on American colleges), should I?</p>
<p>*Being an international and having those stats, he/she’s bound to get some merit-based scholarship(s)^
*</p>
<p>ONLY if he applies to the schools that give merit scholarships to int’ls. </p>
<p>Many top schools don’t give merit scholarships to ANYONE. And some schools that give merit scholarships won’t award them to int’ls. However, some will. This student needs to target those that will as “back ups”.</p>
<p>Also…keep in mind that while your family may SAY that it can only pay up to $20k per year, a school that gives FA to int’ls may say that YOUR family can pay $30k or more per year after looking at your family’s income and assets. It’s not up to the family to say how much aid it needs.</p>
<p>That’s why it’s important to apply to some schools that will give you big merit for stats. Since your family will pay up to $20k per year (including personal expenses and travel), that means that you’d need at least a full tuition scholarship…less than that won’t be enough.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that as an American, you wouldn’t know which schools give merit scholarships to internationals? Might have to do that on my own then…
But if anyone can help out, that would be good :)</p>
<p>Yeah, the FA situation is a little worrying to be honest. I think the economic status of Australia and America is pretty disparate at the moment, and it could effect how colleges view my family’s need. Still, the Stanford FA Calculator said my need was about 35K, which would reduce my fees to about 20K.</p>
<p>Oh, and to avoid any awkward terminology, I’m male so you can refer to me as “he/him” if you want to :P</p>
<p>Well it all comes down to who you are as a person and what you’re looking for in a college.</p>
<p>Me, personally, I like to be in the city for the excitement it offers. There’s always something to do.</p>
<p>In the case of Columbia, you have one of the most prestigious universities in the world in the most exciting city in the world.</p>
<p>You’ll have the best foods, arts, entertainment, sports, recruiting opportunities, it’s simple to travel to anywhere in the world (out of JFK/LGA) or around the city (top notch public transportation: buses, subways, taxis)… New York is really the perfect place to go to college in my opinion, because you literally have the world at your doorstep. The winters could be a little harsh (not sure what you’re used to), but it’s not terribly bad. I’d research it more to see what you want out of your college experience.</p>
<p>New York just has so many perks, though, that I can’t see how someone WOULDN’T want to go there.</p>
<p>The money COULD be a problem (no matter where you go), so I’d recommend making some phone calls to the schools’ (that you’re interested in) financial aid offices when you get the chance. Just explain your situation and see what they say. They won’t be able to give you any sort of estimate, but they’re more qualified than we are here to answer any financial questions…</p>
<p>You make a compelling case for Columbia, Kepone69. It’s definitely up there on my application list. Whether I can get in is a completely different story!
Are you a Columbian student or alum by any chance?</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice, I’ll check with the financial aid offices. Although, I think it might be too early to inquire about next year’s admissions now, right?</p>
<p>Many schools on the need-aware list are small liberal arts colleges (LACs). These LACs apparently are trying to court more internationals, who presumably tend to overlook them in favor of larger or more famous schools. Virtually all of them are academically strong; most fall in the top 30 or 40 (some in the top 10) of the US News LAC rankings. </p>
<p>All 6 of the need-blind schools are super selective. Amherst is a little less so. As a LAC, it may be significantly less selective for internationals (though I don’t know of any data that breaks out admit rates for internationals only). Amherst has the advantage of belonging to a consortium of 5 colleges, all located in and around one lively college town. This puts more academic and social resources at your disposal than the average LAC has.</p>
<p>Note the average award sizes of the 25 schools on the need-aware list. These include many interesting schools spread all over the USA. I recommend you investigate many of them (don’t just focus on Ivies - Brown, UPenn - or the New England and California schools).</p>
<p>It’s never too early to ask questions, and I’m sure the admissions office at Columbia (or any other University) would be glad to help. You probably won’t be able to apply until August or September, at the earliest, but it’s good to get your questions out of the way now–you don’t want to be throwing money away on applications to schools you cannot afford or wouldn’t want to go to. It adds up.</p>
<p>I, myself, am not a Columbia student, nor have I ever considered it (I could not have cared less in high school), but I absolutely love New York City–I live in New Jersey and go there several times per year. In hindsight, Columbia would’ve been my absolute dream school, but the way things are going, I think I’ll be going to Rutgers this fall. It’s not a terrible thing, because Rutgers is a good school and it’s very affordable for in-state students… but I do wish I could go back and be in your situation.</p>
<p>Have you ever been to America? I know I sound like I may be overhyping New York, but I cannot think of another place I’d rather live. There’s truly something for everyone, no matter who you are.</p>
<p>You should take a look at this video… the music is kind of… lol… but it offers a pretty nice glimpse of New York</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - 24 Hours in… New York City](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>OK, that all makes a lot of sense Kepone. I’ll start asking questions of my targeted colleges soon, then. Just the other day I put myself on the mailing lists for many of the colleges I’ve found (weirdly, Harvard was the only college for which I couldn’t find a mailing list) and I’ve already had Northwestern College send me an email inviting me to “Visit Northwestern”, if only I could afford to :P</p>
<p>I’ve actually never been to America before. In fact, I’ve only been out of Australia once before on a holiday to Singapore. Primarily because of this, it’s been hard to fully grasp what each American college offers individually. Thanks for the video, it was helpful. :)</p>
<p>All of these schools are reaches for you (and for anyone else), i.e. schools where you are statistically unlikely to be accepted. It’s not that you’re a sub-par applicant, but they get too many applicants to admit all the students they like. Chicago, Cornell and Northwestern (I think?) are particularly stingy with aid for internationals–they give it to a handful of people out of thousands of applicants.</p>
<p>Nothing is guaranteed for you as an international, and this list practically invites failure. You need to cut it in half (at least) and then add quite a few likelier targets.</p>
<p>Applying costs lots of money, by the way: ~$100 per school (application fee + courier service for the fin aid stuff)</p>
<p>Thanks Ghostt
I agree, the list is very optimistic to say the least but it’s only in the draft stage.
As I said earlier, I’m primarily interested in high-achieving schools as my local University is still pretty good, and obviously it is easier to stay at home rather than move to America.
If Chicago, Cornell and Northwestern are particularly stingy with International Aid, then I will strike them off my list - this is the sort of information I want.
I’m not planning on applying to 20 or so colleges, as you said, this will be very expensive. The very reason for this thread is so that I may narrow down my options.</p>
