Which is better in the application process?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Committee letter or no committee letter?</p>

<p>I'm assuming if there's a committee, they might get together and decide whether the candidate will be recommended for med school. Or not? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a committee?</p>

<p>Thanks for your insights. Trying to figure out the difference between what we know (applying to college) and what we don't know (applying to MS). With college, there were so many variations and options and we knew it was going to happen, but in trying to get into MS, it's just not that same in so many respects.</p>

2

<p>Well, if the school offers a committee letter and an applicant does NOT have one, it’s a pretty big red flag on the application.</p>

<p>I think the advantages would include:</p>

<p>–in most cases a committee letter satisfies/overrides any specific LOR requirements for an individual med school (which can vary)</p>

<p>–committees usually require the applicant’s PS when the committee letter is applied for forcing the applicant to get their PS done early and also gives the applicants some feedback on the PS</p>

<p>–(at least at D2’s undergrad) the committee requires an interview which provides the applicant with some interview experience and provides feedback on an applicant’s performance during the interview</p>

<p>–if the committee supports a candidate, the committee letter tends to put the best gloss on the candidate’s CV/grades/MCAT/ etc. A committee can put a low(ish) grade in context w/r/t a very difficult class or a difficult professor.</p>

<p>Disadvantages:</p>

<p>–process can be cumbersome and time consuming</p>

<p>–committee letters tend to get sent out later than individual LORs (for example at D2’s undergrad the earliest committee letters get sent is mid-August. Some won’t go out until mid-September.)</p>

<p>–some schools use committees to screen out weaker applicants (many school have some sort of minimums for committee letters–a minimum GPA or minimum MCAT score, for example. Depending on what the minimums are set at the committee can deny letters to perfectly viable candidates)</p>

<p>–many schools require that requesters have completed a minimum number of semesters at the college to eligible for a letter (which can prevent transfer students and non-trads from being eligible)</p>

<p>~~~~</p>

<p>I’m also pretty sure that the committee can tank any student they don’t like/ don’t think reflects on the school favorably, though I’d hope the committee will be honest enough to tell a student that upfront. With a committee letter, you’d end up with one big lukewarm rec instead of perhaps 2 good individual recs and 1 lukewarm individual rec, or even 3 good individual recs.</p>

3

<p>I’m assuming if there’s a committee, they might get together and decide whether the candidate will be recommended for med school. Or not? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a committee?</p>

<p>I guess it may depend on how rigid the Committee is. If they have some kind of ridiculous benchmark that must be met in order to get a letter, then be concerned. If they do letters for all/nearly all of their pre-meds (who make it to the point of applying), then I wouldn’t worry. If they only decline to do them for students with sub-standard stats, then I wouldn’t worry about that because either my child would have the stats or he wouldn’t be going any further with his med school plans.</p>

4

<p>Wonder whether this advantage of having the committee has been mentioned:</p>

<p>I heard that if your school has the committee which writes the committee letter for you, you only need to request the professors/instructors to send the LORs to the committee which “combines” these LORs for you and then sends the whole “committee package” to all med schools you apply to. Otherwise, you need to comply to each med school’s rule about the (kind and number of) LORs. In some case, it could be quite a hassle.</p>

<p>You still need to do the secondaries and fulfill some special requirements for each med school though.</p>

5

<p>From what I understood, some schools like Johns Hopkins go much deeper than just looking at your MCAT score and GPA. The committee process forces a student to ensure they have all the other attributes a medical school might be looking for (service, shadowing, research). A state school faculty member on the east coast told me that if anyone reads a committee letter from Johns Hopkins, they feel compelled to admit the candidate because they are so glowing.</p>

6

<p>mcat2 is on the spot regarding one of the biggest advantages of the committee letter, not having to worry about how many science letters and nonscience letters to get for each school. All you have to do is comply with your school’s committee letter requirement and you’re good to go.</p>

7

<p>I just talked to D. She attended a meeting in Fall of her junior year of undergrad with the PreMedical Committee. At that time, she received all the forms and a timeline for handing them in. After all the forms were in (she said there was no flexibility on the timeline) a specific person was assigned to be her premedical advisor. She was required to submit three or more letters of evaluation from faculty, including one or more from science faculty. The Committee then met in the Spring to evaluate her, as long as she had completed all forms, had all letters, and had completed all required classes. Her advisor presented her to the Committee. After that, because she was approved by the Committee, there was a letter written for her that included her academic, extracurricular, and personal record.</p>

<p>She said that not all of her classmates got the letter that year. Some may not have completed all forms, etc. on time? Or maybe they just weren’t going to be recommended? I’m glad she knew what was going on – I had NO idea. All of her ‘group’ started med school the Summer they graduated except one and he started one year later.</p>

8

<p>I would think like anything else there is good and bad to either. Depends on the student and their respective schools.</p>

<p>Son’s first undergrad does do a committee letter and had a pre-health advisor who went over everything. Only problem was son and he did not see eye to eye on ALOT of issues. Son is a pretty easy going guy, laid back who likes to do a bunch of different things…different studies, different ECs,… So an ok major for pre-med (econ, calculus track) and greek studies minor (not what is officially called but along those lines)…didn’t follow the logic of certain class loads of recommended study rather took 2 over each semester…had enough AP to graduate a year early or study abroad or blah blah…didn’t do any of it, just took more courses (what he wanted).</p>

<p>Took summer classes every summer (what he wanted, not what pre-health guy wanted but his regular advisor encouraged him…whole 'nother story), did research he wanted not what pre-health guy wanted…senior study/research/thesis made pre-health guy CRAZY…econ guy loved it, received an A which is not an easy feat from thesis advisor…was on health care. He was a D1 athlete which also drove pre-health guy nuts, always gone, always practice, film, injuries…</p>

<p>His EC was tutoring in the inner city not doing pre-health stuff but rather science fair stuff with the middle school kids for 4 years. Again the pre-health advisor and then committee just did not see son’s path/passions. </p>

<p>So he did not ask them for a committee letter. Rather he obtained the LORs he wanted, quite a few (8) of all kinds. Cornell asked why no committee letter, he told them and in the same phone conversation they invited him for an interview.</p>

<p>Interestingly, after son graduated later the same summer the pre-health guy was quietly asked to leave. Guess he didn’t get along with everyone, he just needed to “get along” as son would say!</p>

<p>So, without the committee letter son was able to have his recs ready to go when he submitted. So he was complete very quickly and had his first II beginning of August.</p>

<p>Harvard, Michigan, Cornell, Dartmouth, UNC and others did not bring up the missing committee letter at all. They were however interested in some of his recs and made for very intersting discussions. He said most of his interviews went over and were actually enjoyable but then again he is a funny guy, social butterfly…one EC was senior exec (social chair) of his eating club. </p>

<p>I would not recommend this to anyone, snubbing the committee but for son he just did what he always does, follow his gut. Literally, sigh! He said “Mom I make that guy crazier than I make you, he sees me and turns red.”</p>

<p>So son’s letters of rec probably spoke more to who he was and what he could be than a committee letter although I assume some were just a hoot, if I know my boy. His PS was a cliff hanger, since the questioned most asked of him when he walked through the interview door was, “So what happened?” Again not something I would recommend to anyone. Seriously.</p>

<p>But he did enjoy the process, met a ton of people, still talks to most of them (interviewers) crazy huh? And he ended up with more choices than I thought possible. He said the process also helped him figure out what he wanted, how he wanted to do it and how much fun he could have in the process. Something he actually asked during interviews, fun is a very important factor. </p>

<p>He is running in the Krispy Kreme challenge again this year, 6th year and some people from around the country that he met along the interview path will be joining him and the other thousands of people. The first year he did it only a handful participated. Now its on ESPN. Run 5 miles and have to eat 12 Krispy Kreme donuts, 2.5 up, eat and then 2.5 back. Fun. At least something he deems fun. He went flying last weekend (single engine with his bro), was in NYC for the holidays and a quick run up to Boston to visit pals at Harvard (1 law, 1 phd) and his buddies in DC. Had tickets to Carolina game and the Duke/State game where State won.</p>

<p>So I would do what your school recommends unless there is a major issue or the timing is just really, really late.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

9

<p>Actually, son’s school does NOT provide a committee letter, but I wondered what he was missing. Seems to me……</p>

<p>Advantages of having a committee letter: less paperwork, since the one LoR will be woven from many. The concern that different schools have different LoR requirements is alleviated. PS must be done earlier.</p>

<p>Advantages to NOT having a committee letter: If you are a marginal student, you can’t be declined. The decision to apply and the timing is completely up to the applicant. You may be able to provide a “fuller” picture of yourself, in part, because you decide who writes your LoRs. </p>

<p>Thanks kat for your post. My son seems like yours, in terms of wanting “fun”, comfortable meeting others, not typical ECs, etc. He also participated in one of those Krispy Creme runs. He went from donut shop to donut shop, as part of a fundrasier. Had lots of fun, but ended up with a stomach ache at the end.</p>

10

<p>am i reading this correctly… if you have a committee letter, you dont have to worry about additional letters. some schools want more than 3, and want very specific letters, ie from each research experience… you still have to get those? or you dont?</p>

11

<p>Our state school has very specific requirements for 4 LORs and these requirements are NOT superceded by her undergrad’s committee letter. (Via school website) She will be submitting 4 letters which meet these requirements to her committee for inclusion in her committee packet. Additionally, she will be submitting an additional 1-2 letters beyond these 4 to her committee for inclusion in her packet to fullfill requirements for 3 professor letters required by other schools.</p>

<p>If I understand correctly, some schools will allow a committee letter replace their own requirements; some won’t.</p>

12

<p>thanks wowmom… i swear, it would be so much easier if they all had the same requirements, same format, same process etc. i am still trying to figure out how school specific letters even get to aamc, what goes into the packet, what profs count, can they be used as a specific science prof lor and a research lor if they were you mentor. S2 has a lot of calling to do.</p>

13

<p>Once letters have been uploaded to AMCAS (assuming they’re not part of the committee packet), the student can specify which letter goes where. Letters included as part committee packet cannot be parsed out–everything in the packet goes to every school the student sends the packet to.</p>

14

<p>i’m not sure why i find this confusing…hopefully son wont LOL…but ok so he has the 3 letters sent to premed advisor for the committee letter, or if he chooses to have a few more that can go in packet? but if he asks some other people ie a prof from another university where he did research…does that prof submit directly to amcas? and how is that done</p>

15

<p>I think nobody has mentioned this (which I learned from norcalguy some time ago):</p>

<p>The required LORs should come from your INSTRUCTORs, from whom you have taken their classes in a regular class room setting (giving all students tests and grades.) They are not just any professors whom you know from other context.</p>

<p>There is a distinuishment between a professor who is your instructor and a professor who is not your instructor.</p>

<p>Of course, you could always supplement your required LORs with additional/optional LORs which could be from a professor who is not your instructor. Also, for some (likely research one?) med schools, if you have done research with a PI, you must submit a LOR from your PI as well. In one year, I think there was an applicant from wustl (college) who got into some trouble because his PI thought he had not committed enough time to the lab and his PI was upset about it.</p>

16

<p>*Wonder whether this advantage of having the committee has been mentioned:</p>

<p>I heard that if your school has the committee which writes the committee letter for you, you only need to request the professors/instructors to send the LORs to the committee which “combines” these LORs for you and then sends the whole “committee package” to all med schools you apply to. Otherwise, you need to comply to each med school’s rule about the (kind and number of) LORs. In some case, it could be quite a hassle.</p>

<p>You still need to do the secondaries and fulfill some special requirements for each med school though.
*<br>
*</p>

<p>Excellent point! My son got his LORs from an Orgo prof, an engineering prof, his REU PI, his employer (a university employee), and a shadowing physician. The committee took those LORs, met with my son, held a mock-interview, wrote up the CL and that was that. </p>

<p>He didn’t have to worry that some SOMs may want 2 science profs or one humanities prof or whatever. </p>

<p>on the SOMs websites they’ll state that they want LORs from this or that source, BUT if you have a CL, that’s fine (probably better).</p>

17

<p>*am i reading this correctly… if you have a committee letter, you dont have to worry about additional letters. some schools want more than 3, and want very specific letters, ie from each research experience… you still have to get those? or you dont?
*</p>

<p>Most (if not all) SOMs will accept the CL and waive their own unique LOR req’ts.</p>

18

<p>Ugh! There I was, thinking it was advantageous to NOT have a CL. Restrictive…. Generic letters written from professors who don’t know you…. But, it seems that this aspect of the application is so much simpler if he had a CL.</p>

<p>Why wouldn’t a school have committee letters? (Simple answer: why should they do extra work?)</p>

19

<p>In some cases, I’d venture they’re less restrictive than the typical LOR request from the SOMs. Here’s how it worked for me:</p>

<p>1) All 13 of the schools I applied to (except 1, Duke) had the same request for LORs: either 2 science + 1 non-science prof, OR a committee letter. I chose the committee letter. (Duke wanted a hardcopy, not just the electronic version, or some similar annoying BS.)</p>

<p>2) My committee worked much the way it’s been outlined here: applicant fills out committee paperwork (PS, CV, etc), applicant secures letters from various profs, profs send letters to committee, committee reads and summarizes them (ie pulls snippets from the letters to include in the cover letter), committee interviews applicant, committee writes a cover letter with nice snippets plus a comparison of applicant to his/her peers, committee sends cover letter + all letters from profs to AMCAS, AMCAS distributes it to all SOMs (except Duke, per Duke’s rules).</p>

<p>3) I wanted the committee (in my case, the Honors College) to have a nice, well-rounded view of my candidacy. To that end, I sent them 8 letters: two science profs who became great mentors (A+ in one, B in the other), a prof from my leadership minor who could speak to my leadership roles on campus, the two docs I spent the most time shadowing, my PI, the social worker I volunteered with for years, and a mentor from an area of health care research I’d recently become interested in. No way would I have gotten away with that little stunt had I gone the non-committee letter route. As a bonus, the excerpt of the committee letter that was shared with me during my interview debrief was fabulous because it pulled from each of those people. As a potential extra bonus, the head of the committee knew most of those people personally, and the med school adcom also knew both the committee chair and most of my recommenders (same university). </p>

<p>As far as I’m concerned, the pros/cons of committee letters have already been touched!</p>

20

<p>I do not know about letters, but having a great committee that allowed the earliest possible application was crucial in D’s application process. She definitely was earlier than many others and this made a huge difference as she had 2 acceptances on the earliest date that Med. Schools can let them know. And this actually has triggered at least one more interview (or maybe more) from the competing school.</p>