@prof2dad: This is mostly a STEM ranking (with some social science), but it should give you a sense of research prowess: http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2016.html
“On the other hand, many of the biggest spenders per capita don’t have particularly strong flagships; top 5 in per capita spending are Wyoming (+144%), North Dakota (+104%), Alaska (+92%), New Mexico (+74%), Nebraska (+61%).”
All relative bargains for OOS students! So are the Montana, SD, and Utah flagships. I just had a fantastic visit at U of New Mexico in May.
The one thing I’ve noticed about Rutgers is that it is spread out all over the New Brunswick area. It doesn’t have a campus feel to it. Some of the colleges are near the downtown and some are are considerable bus ride away. Many kids have told me they feel overwhelmed by its size and the bus system. It’s not a deal breaker by any means but it is definitely a con when comparing it to other state flagships.
But that could be overcome if they offered scholarship money to more in-state applicants. I know kids in the top 10% with good stats that were given much better offers at comparable schools out of state. They need to stay competitive or people will go elsewhere.
Keep in mind that Rutgers is a large PUBLIC research university and should be compared to it’s peers that share the same mission. In that case, it’s better to think of the US News Top Public University rankings (as good a list as any) and not compare it to the Princeton’s and Browns of the world…
It’s currently ranked 25th. right behind UPItt, and ahead of UMINN-TC, TAMU and VTech. That’s not bad company, but look at the list. To move up into the top 20, it has to be viewed as a peer to UT-Austin, U-Washington, OSU, Penn State, UF, etc.
I was going to write up a long winded spiel about the steps needed to move up in rankings, which requires significant investment (not gaming the “system”), but then I found that Rutgers has already published their “5 year Strategic Plan”, which lays out the very same steps.
http://urwebsrv.rutgers.edu/ebook/stratplanbrief/
- Improve Academic Programs
- Recruit top faculty
- Students (higher academic profile, better graduation/retention rates, higher satisfaction
- Infrastructure
I highly recommend readying the above linked overview, to see how Rutgers plans to improve in each of these areas.
The best way to think of it, it’s not about going up in the rankings, it’s about matching your aspirational peers (and rankings will take care of themselves).
To do all of this, of course, requires state and Alumni support ($$$) and years of investment.
(and while all that is going on, your peers are trying to do the very same thing…)
^ Right, which is why it is extremely hard for a public to do so. How many have made the leap that RU is seeking to make (to where UW and UT-Austin are)? Arguably, PSU, OSU, UConn, UF, and UGa.
All are in big states (except UConn) but all were also aided to some degree by football success (basketball success in the case of UConn) and growing in-state populations in the case of the latter 2.
So it seems like RU’s most effective path may be to spend crazy money on basketball (much cheaper than football) and/or get a Jim Calhoun.
@prof2dad The train from New Brunswick to NYC is less than one hour, which makes RU an ideal location for interviews or actually working an internship during the school year or summer (many adult workers commute from NB to NYC every day). So for someone wanting a school conveniently located to a major metro area, in that regard alone, Rutgers would be as attractive as, say Fordham or Villanova.
re#255, I may be all wrong, but I think the main problem in New York is that the system as constructed was spread very thin, with numerous branches to support. The desire to establish a 'flagship" was always impeded by every constituency wanting their school to be that flagship. So they established four [roughly] "co-equal “flagships”:: Stony Brook, Binghamton, Buffalo and Albany. Back in the day, these were actually pretty well respected schools. (some moreso than others). And still are not horrible by any means. However, politically they could never pull enough funding from all the others to make one of them stand way above.
I think they view their main mission as to provide affordable education widely across the state. Rather than elite education. As mentioned by others previously, the wide variety of proximate private colleges, which have existed well before SUNY existed, sort of reduces their guilt about not funding to levels that would befit the highest end of the education pyramid.
Since these schools were always this way, they did not have the alumni base to establish material individual separate endowments like Michigan did. Or maybe they just didn’t have the idea.
And the way things are now, nobody is talking about increasing taxes for establishing a flagship.
I went to Rutgers thirty years ago and I can’t believe they haven’t been able to improve the logistics of having students navigate between classes on five campuses. Here’s my crazy idea: build a monorail system for students to travel between campuses. It would be more fun and eliminate traffic worries.
From what I’ve noticed, acceptance rates have really gone down at NJ schools so schools like Rowan, Stockton, and Ramapo have become much harder to get into, following in the footsteps of TCNJ. I think it’s sad that average kids are losing the opportunity of reasonable safety schools.
Rowan’s big turnaround was spurred from Henry Rowan’s $100 million donation and their dedication to STEM. Listening to the podcast, that someone linked here about the impact of Henry Rowan’s gift, made me really appreciate how private donor gifts to public colleges can change an entire region of a state, versus being a drop in the ocean at an elite uni with an already large endowment. I wish it could happen everywhere.
@monydad if NYers were to establish a flagship, which do you think it would be? My bet is on Buffalo (great school btw)
@LBad96 look when SUNY was created. It was purposefully set up so no SUNY school would compete against the existing NY elite colleges.
@ClarinetDad16 who said any SUNY flagship had to be “elite”? It should just be good enough to be a standalone, standard Northeast flagship. I’ve a feeling any such flagship would be level with the likes of Rutgers, UMass, UDel, etc.
@LBad96 when were those flagships founded and when was SUNY created?
@ClarinetDad16 and @LBad96 both bring up good points. I agree with both. That being said, NY has a lot of wealth and those kids who leave now to attend UDel or PS etc over Buffalo would likely still leave if we had a flagship. It’s possible that the state would attract more OOS kids if the cost remained reasonable - right now SUNY is reasonable for OOS.
I think Buffalo should be the flagship but that won’t happen.
Personally, I do not see much a difference between whether a university was founded 170 years or 200 years ago. It is more about whether a university at some point of time did something really special to change people’s perception and thus “prestige;” UCB is much younger than many other flagships. Having said that, the in-state free tuition things in NY will surely stir things up. It could be a thing to change SUNY’s competitiveness. We will see in something like 20 years. 
Re #s 268 & 270:
- If they were going to start differentially investing in one campus, I think it would be Binghamton, or Buffalo.
Because those campuses are located in economically struggling areas of the state that can most benefit from the additional investment and economic activity.
But I think it will not happen, and besides what I think is of no consequence.
- By rankings I just looked up, Binghamton is already in range with those named schools.
Binghamton 86, Rutgers 70, U Mass 74, U Delaware 79. Not hugely different.
The difference is those other schools are clearly flagships of their respective states, whereas Binghamton must share that title with three other schools.
I haven’t looked up past rankings, but my recollection is in the past at least three of the four flagship SUNYs were very well respected and attracted great students . Binghamton still gets very good students.
Binghamton does get very good students, however it generally does not attract top students who can afford to go elsewhere such as Cornell, Michigan, UVA, etc and it does not keep top students who get FA to these other schools. Many students use Binghamton as a safety and they have no intention of going. I am not taking anything away from Binghamton- it provides an excellent education at an affordable price.
I imagine the same can probably be said for U Mass, and most of the other state universities in the Northeast. Certainly those places do not have a materially better reputation here, where I live, than Binghamton does.
@prof2dad you are off by 100 years.
Many moons ago, after getting into UC Davis, my father took a job in NJ in May of my senior year. Long story short, I wound up at Seton Hall because they had rolling admissions and it was late in the game. I took advantage of every opportunity the school had to offer, including conducting and publishing research. I graduated near top of my class and got full scholarship to Purdue to pursue my graduate degree. Ratings aside, hard work and work ethic is the game changer, in my opinion.
“@prof2dad you are off by 100 years.”
270, @LBad96 stated " I've a feeling any such flagship would be level with the likes of Rutgers, UMass, UDel, etc."
271, @ClarinetDad16 You stated "when were those flagships founded and when was SUNY created?"
UMass was founded in 1863. It is actually younger than SUNY Buffalo that was founded in 1846. I used 170 years to indicate SUNY Buffalo’s age. I used a rouge estimate of 200 years to indicated the average age of Rutgers, Umass and UDel. I think I are not off by 100 years.