Rather than forget Illinois, I’ll tie it in to #292.
I just recently had an incredibly good deep dish pizza in… San Francisco.
I daresay few Chi-town residents cite San Francisco when asked where to go for a pie.
Nevertheless, it was really good.
@monydad, the only people who say Zachary’s has good Chicago-style pizza are people who did not grow up in Chicagoland.
If it’s another place, then nevermind as I haven’t tried it.
@Hanna, I’d say that the location and campus style of UIUC and UIC are pretty darn different.
It’s another place.
While I did not grow up in Chicago I did live there for three years. Not far from Giordano’s, FWIW.
Yes, but the universities “don’t offer the variety of locations and campus styles that other large states like Ohio, Virginia, etc. do.”
Every meaningful town in Ohio has a university. But there’s no public university in Peoria, Rockford, Aurora, Joliet, Waukegan…
Well, Illinois is close. In 2014, slightly more Illinois residents enrolled as full-time freshmen in-state (37,736) than out-of-state (30,143). In the other states I mentioned, literally more state residents enrolled out-of-state than in-state. But I’ll give Illinois an honorable mention as a major exporter of college freshmen.
Consistent with the general pattern, most of the Illinoisans didn’t go far: 3,873 to Iowa, 3,821 to Wisconsin, 3,810 to Missouri, 3,514 to Indiana, 1,961 to Michigan, and 1,936 to Ohio. Most popular OOS destinations included Mizzou (1.437 Illinois freshmen in 2014), University of Iowa (1,378 ), Indiana-Bloomington (1,016), Iowa State (853), Marquette (758), Wisconsin-Madison (599), Saint Louis University (555), Purdue (497), Miami (Ohio) 399, Michigan (362), Kentucky (344), Minnesota-Twin Cities (339), and Michigan State (335).
@Hanna But most of those “meaningful” towns are within 50-100 miles of each other and considered part of the greater Chicagoland area. They can’t very well all have public unis, there’s a need for schools in other parts of the state. I guess Ohio’s larger cities are a lot more evenly distributed than those in Illinois.
If you draw a circle with a 100-mile radius and the Ohio State University as its center, there will be at least four other public universities inside the circle: Miami, Cincinnati, Ohio University, and Kent State. Maybe more. None of them is more than 60 miles from at least one other Ohio public university.
@JHS that’s a good point. I never thought if it but it’s true that no matter where you are in Ohio, you’re close to a decently ranked public school and no more than 5 hours away if you wanted to leave your area. I was OOS at Miami University, (all my family attended so that’s why I made the trip from NJ) but many of my friends were from Cleveland. It might not have been planned, but it’s a great layout for a state university system.
Every state will have a different distribution of public colleges depending on history, geography, and politics.
OH has 3 metro areas and several other smaller distinct urban centers.
IL has one giant metro area and the smaller distinct urban centers.
OH was also settled earlier. It’s state and local governments also took over a bunch of privates throughout its history. That never happened (or had to) in IL. Because of that, OH has a ton of publics (as well as a ton of privates).
So yes, 8 of the 12 cities in IL with the most population don’t have publics within it’s city limits. But 7 of those 12 are in Chicagoland. Of the other 5, Springfield, Champaign, and Bloomington all have one. Rockford has one nearby in Dekalb, and only Peoria has to rely on its private.
By comparison, AZ (another state with one big metro) only has 2 publics among it’s 12 largest cities. Granted, ASU is spread over 3 cities, but 8 of the 12 most populous cities in AZ also don’t have publics.
However, 10 of those 12 largest cities are in Maricopa county, where Arizona State University is. One of the others is Tucson, which has University of Arizona. The remaining one is Yuma (population about 93,000), with no nearby state university. The 13th largest city is Flagstaff (population about 66,000), where Northern Arizona University is.
In terms of “one giant metro area” describing Illinois, that also describes Arizona.
Paxti in San Francisco makes a really good Chicago pizza (Giordano stuffed style, not Pizzaria Uno deep dish style).
I lived in Chicago for 5 years, and I know good Chicago pizza.
Generally speaking, I think San Francisco overall has the best food in the country. But to be honest, the pizza generally is mediocre and the bagels are bad. Other than that, we are good.
And Peoria is only about 40 miles from Bloomington, so not that far from Illinois State.
That was my point, @ucbalumnus. You have to compare like with like.
The geographic distribution of OH just isn’t like IL’s (nor the history and politics).
The difference is even starker than that. Ohio has 7 metropolitan statistical areas with populations of 500,000 or more: Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton, Akron, Toledo, and Youngstown. Most of Ohio’s public universities are in or near these major population centers.
Illinois has 2: Chicago with an MSA population of 9.5 million, and the Illinois portion of the St. Louis MSA with a population around 600,000. Places like Rockford, Peoria, and Springfield are pretty rinky-dink in comparison.
CA donut hole family here. While S will apply to at least one UC, all of the other schools on his list are OOS, and it’s purely for financial reasons. There’s no way in heck that we can manage the $20-25k the NPCs are spitting out for a variety of CA schools, and that figure is assuming that S can swing a Regents scholarship, which is not at all guaranteed.
Now we hear that CA might eliminate the Middle Class Scholarship, and hooboy - kid, how’s Albuquerque looking? While I absolutely support CA prioritizing families with the highest need, the reality is that S will have to take an NMF scholarship (which we dearly hope he gets) and head OOS for undergrad. Hopefully, he will be able to come back for med school.
And if he doesn’t come back for med school, if the culmination of being pushed out of state for undergrad means he leaves CA for good, then the state needs to consider whether their educational policies are creating a brain drain.
I live in CA because I came here for grad school, married a native and stayed.
(well first sentence anyway; haven’t been there enough to corroborate third)
http://www.suny.edu/media/suny/content-assets/images/map/sunymap-all.jpg
This above map link is a little busy because it also includes all of NY community colleges as well, but I’ll give NY credit for spreading its 20+ four year and graduate schools very well around the state. NY may not have the singular flagship that draws tons of OOS, or the big sports school with name recognition, but it serves the NY population well with a variety of schools with different areas of excellence, different parts of the state, and especially different levels of selectivity.
Stony Brook and Binghamton lead the way with the highest top 25% SAT. Third in the list is not Buffalo or Albany, but Geneseo, a highly-prized LAC-like SUNY nearly an hour away from any major city.
NY is a big state with many high-stats students in the northeast where there’s lots of other public and private options, so even if they managed to turn Buffalo into UMich tomorrow, NY would be a net exporter.
It’s worth remembering how massively hard it would be to “turn Buffalo into UMich.” While the University of Michigan is clearly a public university – among other things, its board is largely appointed by the government, and it has always embraced its responsibility to Michigan citizens – state-sourced public money is a very small piece of its finances. It has a huge endowment, huge alumni support, huge capital in place, and of course significant federal research dollars. It takes generations to build the kind of endowment, alumni base, and physical campus. There was a time when Buffalo really did aspire to become the University of Michigan. In the mid-60s / early 70s, it had amazing faculty in a number of areas. But the level of sustained state support that would have been necessary to turbo-boost to an elite level was never politically feasible.
For what it is worth, here are the colleges and universities in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1ODpXFDNypx6dcw6-yror_ZLuBkc&hl=en&ll=37.88080117341992%2C-119.25502357031246&z=6
Yellow = community college
Green = CSU
Red = UC
Purple = private
You can pretty much tell from the map where the population density is higher versus lower, since the community colleges and CSUs were mainly built to serve local populations, and even the UC locations were selected with some consideration for serving local populations.
