LBad96, I couldn’t agree with you more. Husband and I are NJ residents, transplanted from OH. We were born and raised Buckeyes and went to college at 2 of the great OH state school options for very little out-of-pocket expense. College was the greatest experience I could have ever asked for . . . I formed the best friendships of my life, I met and befriended people from all over the country, and I received an education that was respectable in all parts of the country based upon numerous acceptances into grad school and prospective job offers. The first thing that struck me as we toured our in-state NJ options was the fact that the campuses were deserted (with all of our visits in NJ taking place on weekends). Each time I would ask the guide why the campus was so quiet, the universal and consistent response was that “It’s the weekend. Every one goes home.” This aspect alone was very disappointing and discouraging. My twins are first year students at OOS private schools and actually attending at a fraction of the cost of in-state options. Rutgers offered my S who was in the top 5% of his class nothing in merit aid and only the standard $5,500 in federal loans. The private school in MA he selected offered him $52,000 in financial aid (only $5,500 of that being a loan). There was no question about it. Each of the kids applied to only 1 in-state NJ school as a “safety” and both schools were low on their lists. You mentioned UNC-Wilmington and this option was in my D’s top 3. Our OOS cost for an OOS NC school was equivalent to what we would have paid for in-state in NJ and as you mentioned, the experience would have been ten-fold better. (She chose a large private school in upstate NY, also for a fraction of any in-state options with most of it paid for by a school grant.) Of each child’s peer group, only about 10% stayed in-state. Most had no desire to stay, as mentioned, it seemed to be more or less an extension of high school if they did. garland, though there is some truth to the number of spaces vs the number of students, I disagree that it has anything to do with the mass exodus of NJ students to OOS options. As LBad96 pointed out, the OOS options are simply far superior academically, socially, and financially for most NJ residents. Though I do believe the quality of the education at either Rutgers or Rowan may be adequate, it is the quality of the experience that generally does not compare.
@NJFabFour I looked at your username before clicking on the thread to reply and thought you would chew me out, lol! Thankful that we agree, though. Rutgers, TCNJ, and Rowan are all decent to solid academically, but the college experience at those schools are lacking in comparison to most OOS options. And those are just the top three. I attend UNC Wilmington (hence why I mentioned it), and I’m more than confident that my social life is incomparably better here than it would be at any NJ school. I needed to go OOS to really get away from my hometown and all the cringey memories and stuck-up pretentious snobs. I’m taking out loans to go here, but I’m pretty sure it would be the same had I stayed in-state. It is absolutely more than worth it. Of all the people I considered my good, close friends in HS, only a handful stayed in-state.
Your daughter picked Syracuse, huh? (I applied there myself, so I know what you’re referring to.) Pretty curious as to why she chose an upstate NY school over a school with such beautiful weather and near a beach!
It was really hard for her to turn down NC because the proximity to the beach was a prime criteria in her search, LOL. Syracuse (and Rowan) were the only Northern schools she considered, the others were in NC and FL! But ultimately, the school spirit at SU was a large draw for her and they had the program she wanted and the best price! Never thought I’d see that girl love to wear orange! 
I have taught at Rutgers and can tell you that, although virtually all the students are from NJs, the school is extremely diverse because NJ is very diverse. So, although many students go to high schools where everyone is “just like them,” Rutgers does offer the opportunity for students to get out of their respective bubbles or at least attend class with students from many different cultural backgrounds. That said, I agree with the comments that NJ’s public higher-ed offerings are both expensive and lackluster compared with many other state university systems. My own kids didn’t attend and, having seen the place first-hand, I believe they were better off where they went, despite the dent (or, rather, crater) in our finances.
Both of my NJ children were offered considerable merit by Rutgers and the one, who got a full ride, attended. He did not like his college experience too much but he took full advantage of access to internships and jobs that Rutgers careers office had to offer. He graduated without debt and now lives in downtown Manhattan on a charmingly crooked street and walks 2 minutes to his office where he works alongside people graduated from pricey private schools.
The idea to take loans to attend a NC directional university did not cross his mind. He is probably too stuck up for that.
I am not an expert but it is surprising to me that Syracuse University may be cheaper than Rutgers for a NJ resident who is not good enough to qualify for Rutgers merit. My daughter does attend a private university where her need based aid makes the cost comparable to Rutgers cost after merit.
The option to crater one’s finances for a better college experience for your children is a choice. Rutgers degree will not hold anyone back.
@NJFabFour haha, wow! Funny thing is, I was nearly the exact opposite; UNCW (and Stetson, a small-ish FL private) were the only schools south of the Mason-Dixon Line that I considered, and I mostly focused on MA and NY! But the fact that UNCW is a great, up-and-coming university, the campus life is vibrant, and social scene/location is prime sealed it for me! Fun fact: I was actually accepted to UNCW two years ago yesterday 
Haven’t looked back since the day I officially committed. I never thought I’d go to school in NC and wear teal, but look where I am now.
@rockingchair I agree with your comment generally, but I kinda think NJ’s diversity is a little overrated. Not a whole lot of African-Americans, especially compared to places like NC.
Not really a directional. Lol. Maybe he fit the Rutgers mold 
UNCW is a directional. (No offense).
@itsgettingreal17 it’s not the flagship, but it’s not a directional. If it was a directional, it would be called “Wilmington State University” or “Wrightsville State University”.
@LBad96 “State” in a University name does not denote directional status. A directional is a regional school usually with a direction or a city name. The 2 national universities in NC are UNC and NCSU. All the rest are really directionals/regional schools, including UNCW. You shouldn’t take that as somehow putting down your school (though from all your posts, I know you do). Not worth loans, imo. If comfortable affordable, sure. But otherwise, not a wise financial move, imo.
I know a lot of kids taking out loans to attend other state’s directional U’s because their own state “lacks diversity”. Often to a U with fewer academic offerings, not as rigorous a course of study, weaker academic reputation, etc.
To each his own.
Instead of using the term “directional”, why not “non flagship state university”, since many do not have directional names like East Carolina, Western Carolina, etc.?
Of course, this assumes that a direction in the state name does not count, like any UNC school or others like NCSU, NCCU, and NC A&T.
@itsgettingreal17 I don’t take it as putting it down after you explained it, no. It’s just that without your clarification, directional just had a negative connotation. I appreciate the clarification. I can understand why you don’t think it’s worth loans, but attending an in-state public with just as many loans wouldn’t have been wise, either (would’ve cost the same). Plus, moving back to NJ to attend school would absolutely mutilate my ego. I can admit I’m way too stuck up/elitist to even consider that possibility, especially when I’m in love with my current school more and more each day.
@ucbalumnus I would’ve used the term “non-flagship” for schools like UNCW, Appalachian State, UNC Asheville, UNC Charlotte. Then the rest would all be directionals. And obviously UNC and NC State would be the flagships (shared distinction because they’re both so large)
In part, the situation in NC and NJ is contrasted because there’s no equivalent to UNC-Chapel Hill and NCSU in NJ - Rutgers, TCNJ, NJIT aren’t comparable to those colleges. UNC W’s entering class stats are roughly the same as Rutgers’, in part because many NJ students with the stats to get into the likes of UNC Chapel Hill and NCSU attend universities OOS.
(There’s a clear difference in Rutgers’ favor at the graduate level).
For NC, it could like the UC’s - discussed as tiers, with UNC CH and NCSU being first tier, UNCW, UNCA, App State, the other third tier?
@MYOS1634 bang on target as usual (though I’d personally put Rowan ahead of NJIT).
For NC alone, it would be:
UNC-CH
NCSU
UNCW
App State
UNCA
UNCC
UNCG
NC A&T
ECU
Western Carolina
Combining the two states, Rutgers and TCNJ would probably be right after App State in tier 2, Rowan would come after UNCA, and both NJIT and Ramapo would be after UNCC, but before UNCG.
NCSU’s entering class stats are about the same as Rutger’s.
Honestly, I think people can and are being a little carried away.
Speaking as someone who is not close to either NJ or NC, UNC is indeed seen as above any other public in NJ or NC. Then RU and NCSU are peers and every other public is a directional.
"I am not an expert but it is surprising to me that Syracuse University may be cheaper than Rutgers for a NJ resident who is not good enough to qualify for Rutgers merit. My daughter does attend a private university where her need based aid makes the cost comparable to Rutgers cost after merit.
The option to crater one’s finances for a better college experience for your children is a choice. Rutgers degree will not hold anyone back."
Tanbiko, our cost is based upon the need-based aid that they provided. As a private school, Syracuse is able to cover about 90% of the family’s cost after EFC is taken into account. For our family, that amounts to a cost nearly half of an in-state school such as Rutgers. Certainly, everyone’s situation is different but it was the most economical choice for us, especially with virtually no need-based aid covered by NJ state universities.
Two points about New Jersey. First, New Jersey’s public universities may be full but they don’t attract many of the state’s top students. New Jersey and Michigan produce similar numbers of high school graduates (Michigan has a larger overall population but it’s an aging population, so the school-aged population is slowly declining). And Rutgers and the University of Michigan are similar-sized flagships with similar-sized entering freshman classes. But Rutgers’ admit rate is right around 60%, while Michigan’s is now 27%. And the entering class stats aren’t even close. Middle 50% SAT scores at Rutgers are 1130-1340, while at Michigan they’re 1290-1500. Nearly 4 times as many Michigan freshmen have SAT CR scores in the 700-800 range compared to Rutgers, and more than twice as many Michigan freshmen have SAT M scores in that range. That all tells me the top students in New Jersey are avoiding Rutgers in droves.
Second, New Jersey’s student export numbers may be skewed somewhat by the state;s unusual geography, with most of its population in suburbs of major cities in other states Lot of south Jersey (suburban Philadelphia) kids attend schools in Philadelphia, and lots of north Jersey (suburban New York) kids attend schools in New York City. These kids are both “staying local” and yet going out-of-state at the same time. That’s not to say that other members of the New Jersey diaspora won’t go far and wide to get away from Rutgers, but the numbers of local-but-out-of-state kids are also quite substantial… Some examples of NJ freshmen at Philadelphia schools from the 2010 entering class: Drexel 611, Temple 404, St. Joseph’s 389, Villanova 367 (more than from PA), Penn 257, LaSalle 230. And New York City schools: NYU 607, Fordham 296, Pace (NYC campus) 238, St. John’s 237, Columbia 166. Throw in New York and Pennsylvania schools a bit farther afield and the numbers add up really quickly: Penn State 792, Syracuse 394, Cornell 319, Scranton 316, Lehigh 271 (more than from PA), East Stroudsburg 269, West Chester 269, Bloomsburg 239,Kutztown 225, Muhlenberg 213 (more than PA), Ithaca 197, York 192, Marist 191, RIT 191, Pitt 188, Susquehanna 162, Bucknell 143, CMU 127, Gettysburg 125.
I’m close to neither state nor university system. I was surprised, too. But, seriously, I found out about the “second tier” NC universities and Rutgers when I was making comparisons a few years ago (2013 I think). Entering class stats were virtually identical for UNC W/A/App State, and Rutgers. In terms of research, it’s different - and that’s why I said Rutgers would be in a different category for graduate school. But for entering students, it was striking to me - clearly, NJ’s top students were leaving if they could and Rutgers was attracting fewer of them than other states, making it a weaker flagship than many others in terms of peer quality and attractivity - an idea that was reinforced when retaining them became an explicit focus of the new Honors College scheme.
I admit discovering how things have changed a bit in the past couple years: Rutgers no longer publishes HS GPA’s, but has increased to 38% its proportion of students who were top 10% in high school and its composite CR+M has reached 1226 [this has increased]; NCSU’s average is 1250 and 51% were top 10%; UNC Wilmington now lags behind Rutgers, with composite CR+M 1195 and 24% in top 10%. Since this is relatively recent, it could be related to the revamped Honors College that thus achieves its goal of retaining top students in New Jersey, hence pulling Rutgers’ numbers up.
I do think that the public system in North Carolina, just like in Virgina, Florida, Texas, Ohio, or California, is varied enough and strong enough to have more than the customary division between “flagship” and “directionals”, but rather can be divided into broader tiers. YMMV. 
On the other hand, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois, Minnesota, Oregon… either don’t have enough universities or not enough of tiered quality, so that the flagship/directionals denomination system works very well.
@bclintonk, there are all of 3 states in the union with UMich-quality flagships, so I’d say that comparison is a tad unfair.
@JustGraduate I went to UNC and they would like to get more OOS students because it boosts their academic numbers but people who pay taxes in the state want that state school to take in state kids.