I think people are often unjustly hard on their state universities – due too much familiarity and desire to get away from their HS classmates and explore a new world. SUNY schools have the same stigma to top NY students. There’s a lot of SUNY schools (over 20 4-year schools I believe) – but many kids still go out-of-state.
OOS kids do go to NJ schools like Rutgers and NJIT. These schools can be generous with merit aid to high-stats out-of-state students, especially with the Honors Colleges. NJITs average SAT has increased almost 80 points since 2011 – and the average SAT of the 700 students in the Honors College is over 1400. There’s clearly some smart kids that go there.
Below are avg SAT scores for some of the schools mentioned above, in order (from CollegeData.com):
Still trying to figure out the point of this thread lol. Maybe its trying to determine the states where there is the best or worst education and states where people want out or people want to stay, but there are so much exceptions and the system is so imperfect it seems like a pretty pointless statistic.
As a New Jersey student senior from a affluent area, I will tell you why kids do not choose Rutgers. It is not about the academics.
A. Rutgers D1 programs are not on par with other large universities, especially in the big 10, where all my friends and I are enrolling. Sorry to say it but it’s a major factor
B. Rutgers has 5 campuses, and the bussing system is a huge turnoff, especially to nervous mothers and kids.
C. In the state of New Jersey, Rutgers is looked at as a downgrade, almost for lesser students.
D. Rutgers in state tuition is ridiculously expensive compared to other schools.
E. Rutgers offers too few merit scholarships to top students such as myself.
F. Rutgers does not have the brand, students want.
G. Rutgers does not keep its campuses near and pristine.
H. Rutgers does not use the common app and does not move up in rankings.
Additionally, other than TCNJ, which is said to be no fun, the rest of the state schools are both poor academically, Athletically, and do not have nice campuses. This is coming from a current senior in New Jersey. Sorry if you disagree but this is how students feel about Rutgers and state schools.
From my perspective, the NJ state schools gave little, to no merit aid when OOS publics gave my D considerable amounts. She went across the river to the Philly side and is very happy at Temple. With so many alternatives that are better deals in the area, why should these students stay in NJ? It makes no sense.
The few NJ HS students who decided to attend Rutgers were students from the public academy high schools that had near perfect SAT scores and they were given the aid. So unless you are Ivy League material it doesn’t make sense to pay the high in-state tuition to attend Rutgers when you can go OOS for much less.
I don’'t think it’s the least bit unfair. The states with populations most similar to New Jersey’s in pure numbers are Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia. These are the states you’d expect to produce similar numbers of HS graduates, but because household income skews higher in New Jersey and Virginia than the other states in this group, you’d expect New Jersey and Virginia to produce proportionally more high-stats students. Yet of the public flagships in those states, Rutgers has by far the lowest entering class stats, except for Georgia which is virtually indistinguishable from Rutgers on that score. But Georgia’s a bit of a special case because it’s also got Georgia Tech where entering class stats are similar to Michigan, i.e., at the very top of this group.
I stand by my claim. Rutgers does a poor job of attracting the top in-state students. Though it’s certainly not alone in that regard. This is a common pattern throughout much of th Northeast.
@stencils Rutgers and NJIT enroll hardly any OOS students. It’s like playing Where’s Waldo on those campuses. Especially, when do OOS students ever enroll at NJIT? In general, if you’re not attending Princeton, no NJ school is worth attending from OOS. Ever. There are a lot of New Jerseyans who come down to North Carolina; I’d be scratching my head to see the opposite happen.
The other thing about NJIT is that it’s completely DEAD socially. Three kids from my high school class enrolled last year; one withdrew before school started and is currently at Montclair State, the other two transferred at season’s end. In addition, it has a reputation for having poor professors and, like Rutgers, a campus that is rather uneasy on the eye. Perhaps the biggest turnoff is that it’s the most expensive NJ public, located in Newark. Smart students, perhaps, but it is overall a VERY average school.
@barrons I wouldn’t. NC State is better than Rutgers. App State and UNCW are on par with Rutgers.
@MassDaD68 I hear that MA privates are very vicious and cold-blooded towards UMass Amherst?
@bclintonk I’m sure many people would even put UGA above Rutgers!
“As a New Jersey student senior from a affluent area, I will tell you why kids do not choose Rutgers. It is not about the academics.
A. Rutgers D1 programs are not on par with other large universities, especially in the big 10, where all my friends and I are enrolling. Sorry to say it but it’s a major factor”
Football is a major factor, seriously? So, you would be happier at a school such as Penn State where the football programme there has an appalling history?
Also, you mention nothing explicitly in your list about academics. I assure you, as a former NJ resident, that the kids in the affluent areas of NJ do care much more about academics than you do.
Your points B, D, E, G. and H however, are very good points.
@londondad
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Kids from New Jersey know in all honesty Rutgers is just as strong academically as some of those other state U’s. However Rutgers brand and sports teams being awful prevent it from have the cache of a Michigan or Penn State
@collegeman44 I agree. My son bought a t-shirt at each school he visited except one. His safety at the state school. I do not think he wants to be seen wearing a state school shirt.
The irony is that most likely he will end up going there. We just do not have the $45K a year needed to attend the schools he wants to. My son is getting a nice lesson in you don’t get what you want.
The t-shirt test is a very valid indicator of school spirit and pride.
^ you still have time to find affordable schools.
It’s cruel to make him spend the time and invest hope in colleges you have no intention on paying for.
@MYOS1634 Thanks. I am finding that out now. This is my first foray into the college process as this is my first born. All the information I got was to not look at the sticker price and to apply to see what they give. They said private schools gives lots of aid and it is possible to find some that are able to put together a package that is workable. We only have about $30K to work with. My son can borrow the $5k so that is a max of $35K. I am holding the line because each year can be expected to increase another $4-5K. He worked really hard in his AP classes and earned a 4.0GPA but it is just not good enough. He would need better grades to get the good money I am finding.
Luckily we have the state school costs covered so we are very fortunate there. There are many families who struggle with that. It is more of a want than a need. All people have to learn how to live within a budget. this is no different.
But I am getting off topic now. Not wanting to hijack the thread.
This is a great example of “data” vs. “information”.
It does not take population into account.
It does not take economic data into account.
It does not take geography into account.
It does not account for the fact that some state schools don’t want OOS students.
It does not take tuition & financial aid into account.
As pointed out prior, it does not take per capita capacity into account.
It provides no useful conclusions.
It is designed to conclude some incorrect ideas.
Here’s a similar example:
83% of Rutgers students are from NJ
49% of U Mich students are from MI
Want to guess how many bad conclusions I can make from that data point?
west virginia and marshall university( also a state school in WV) are awesome all around schools , that offer a lot in the STEMs including research. u of albama is a super awesome modern cutting edge school . even more out state students would attend those schools if they actually looked at them and did not just accept a stereotype from TV land or if they bring it up to their parents who worry what will such and such neighbors think there to kids go to princeton and williams.
other awesome public schools for out of state students
u of pittsburgh(semi public I guess)
auburn
clemson
university of iowa
university of kentucky
indiana U
So NJ is lacking options when it comes to kids wanting a large, well known research university. Basically the only options are Rutgers or Princeton. To most people I talk to, they really hope they don’t end up at Rutgers. Rutgers campus is unappealing since it is split up into 5 different areas (that you have to take by bus) and it seems like a lot of students don’t want to go because “everyone goes there”. Kids in my school that are not worried about the money factor simply don’t like Rutgers because its campus is not great and they can go to “better” schools that are only an extra hour away (Like UDel or Maryland which are basically the same level as Rutgers with nicer campuses). The next option is Princeton, which is obviously a long-shot for most people. The rest of the colleges in New Jersey aren’t that big and don’t offer the large school feel that a lot of students want (with a few exceptions). This was a problem for me! I toured schools like FDU, Monmouth, Drew, Stockton, Seton Hall, and they all felt the same. I wish that NJ had a system like Virginia or California where there are more larger, well known research universities.
Personally, I applied to Rutgers, got in, but will not be attending. Ironically, I heard back from University of Vermont and received a scholarship that would make attending about the same price of Rutgers. Burlington is definitely better than New Brunswick, and I feel like I would enjoy UVM more than Rutgers.
but i think (my personal opinion) is everyone should go far away from home…like a plane flight far … because separate from the schooling and social aspect a lot of growing and maturity will occur when mommy and daddy are not just an hour drive away and you are forced to start fresh at a school where you do not know anybody from where you grew up
.