Who is this Monster that has taken over my senior's body?

Parent Cafe
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<p>My daughter is 7 weeks into her senior year (her school starts early). While she has always been strong willed, she seems to really have gotten a case of senioritis, a sense of entitlement and a mouth to go along with it. She signed up for a lot of activities, and assured me that she would be able to get all her work done, like keeping her grades up, applying for colleges, her part time job, and her chores around the house. She made a commitment to DQ to work there until they closed for winter, agreed to continue with Tae Kwon Do her senior year, and then signed up for tennis again. She is also an officer in 4 clubs at school. Now 3 out of her 4 grades are Bs, with 3 weeks left in the term, she puts off her chores in the house, isn't applying to colleges yet. She has been rude to everyone in the house.</p>

<p>Tennis is almost over and her parttime job is almost over since winter is almost here. When I tell her she needs to be working harder on school, she complains that she was up until 2 am the night before, after getting home late from tennis or whatever. When I tell her to expect a lot of late nights in college, she has told me that her older friends have told her that "college isn't too hard" and that it's not different than high school. I think my D thinks that college is like a cruise ship - lots of scheduled activities and fun, with some work here and there. She also tells me I should be thankful she doesn't drink or do drugs, which I am happy about it, but has nothing to do with the current issues.</p>

<p>She's a good student with a 31 on the ACT and in the top 10% of her class. She has coasted through high school on smarts, not through effort, and it concerns me that kids like her have a lot of problems when they get to college because they don't know how to work or don't think they should have to. I got through college knowing I was dumb in some areas and had to really work at it. She has never read a chapter of a math book. </p>

<p>She's also applying to some Ivy league schools, even though she likely doesn't have the credentials to get in (she is URM, but even if she got accepted, I have told her we cannot afford it. And if she got in, she would really have a hard time alongside kids who have worked really really hard). We are solid middle class, have been able to save enough money to send her to instate public schools, which she has turned her nose up at, and she has been told that if she wants to go to a private school, she has to get enough merit in order to bring the cost of private down. Her 3 Bs this 1st quarter, if they don't come up, will likely prevent her from getting the merit aid she needs. She assures me she will bring the grades up, but she hasn't made the effort to do it.</p>

<p>While I hate seeing her make mistakes, I think at 17 I should not need to tell her to apply to college, keep her grades up, and to do her chores. I do not want to be a helicopter mom and she doesn't listen to my advice anyway. I honestly don't know what I should do at this point. And I wanted her to enjoy her senior year, and I wanted to enjoy it too. I am wondering if I should stay quiet about applying to colleges the rest of the year, and the same for her grades. I can honestly see her missing application dates and then being left with little choice at the end of the year. On one hand, I feel like a bad mother for doing that. On the other hand, she is a senior in high school. It's time to grow up.</p>

<p>Any advice on this? And how to maintain my sanity this last year?</p>

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<p>susanr64, read some of these threads to know you’re NOT alone! My S is on the same roller coaster ride. Last night, when I asked him what was wrong (he was really grumpy), he said “Its my business.” Then this morning at breakfast, he was a different person, telling me what was going on in his classes!</p>

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<p>I would make sure that she applies to the instate public as a safety (both academic and financial) on time. The rest I would leave up to her - if she wants to have choices, she will have to fill out a bunch of apps by the deadline…</p>

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<p>Hang in there! It’s funny, my really great kid turned into a monster during Senior Yr too…I just couldn’t understand what happened! In my case, I did nag my way into getting the applications that I wanted done, and then left S to finish the rest of them in his own time. There were a few that he submitted the last week that apps were still being accepted! It all turned out ok, but Senior year wasn’t fun for me at all. I thought it was going to be great, and it turned out to be one stressful week after another. Kid #1 had senioritis plus a bad attitude. Eventually my Kid #1 returned after graduation, leaving Monster Boy behind.</p>

<p>On the other hand, my oppositional kid turned into a really fun person during Senior year. After years of fighting (the rules are the same for everyone in our house, ad nauseum), in Senior year Kid #2 actually became easy to talk to. Grades were solid, kid did chores without arguments, sports events were exciting…it was far & away our best year. Kid #2 did all his apps on time and with his own initiative, although a few of them were somewhat sloppy if I was being honest about it.</p>

<p>Now having a completely different experience with Kid #3.</p>

<p>I never figured out how to solve the problem during Kid #1’s transformation into Monster Boy during senior year. I made him cut back on activities when jobs weren’t getting done, and grounded him over a party that I’d prefer to forget. I tried to use some of the more peaceful times to communicate, but Monster-Boy wasn’t good at communicating for the whole year. I honestly felt that I was talking to myself most of the time. All I can tell you is that it was a phase, and the real kid did return before going off to college. As long as you can ensure that your D is applying to the schools that you can afford (try to do college visits and admitted student visits, where she may change her mind about the schools), you’re just hanging on until your real D returns.</p>

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<p>Susan, so many of us have been there, done that. I have sympathy for you. It’s hard to stand back and watch your kid behaving in a way that seems likely to result in fewer choices for them in the future–the immediate future, anyway.</p>

<p>My only suggestion is that you consider hiring a reasonably-priced, down-to-earth, sympatico college counselor if you can find one in your area. I’m not talking about the Ivywise, $25K, get my plagiarizing daughter a book contract kind of person. There’s at least one in our area who I think does a great job of addressing a kid’s needs, finding out what they are about, helping them with school selection, being both encouraging and realistic with them about what they need to do. He has clients aiming at schools ranging from the Ivies to small, lesser known private colleges. Kids with impeccable credentials on all fronts through kids with issues. I know that he will consult on a limited or a more involved basis. It can be enormously helpful to families in your situation because the kid will actually listen to the counselor, and it takes the parent/child stresses out of the college app equation. Or at least relieves it somewhat. :slight_smile: I’m talking about spending around $1K to perhaps $2K, at most. I know it’s not peanuts, but it may be worth it.</p>

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<p>Depends on where she goes. If she’s at a top school as opposed to State U. [some exceptions], she may be in for a rude shock. It’s a different game when every other student in your college class is smart and some of them have had better preparation than you. Sports metaphor: the speed of the pitching is a lot faster.</p>

<p>Btw, regarding financial aid, a high-score & high-grades URM may do very well…let the system play out.</p>

<p>But as to your question, there are some things that are Too Important to Let Fail, and college apps is one of them. Letting grades fall victim to senioritis, too. There can be a cascade effect and while she still may have some very good choices, some great choices may evaporate. It’s one thing if they were never seriously in reach any way, it’s another if they were and the student simply muffs it.</p>

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<p>So you’re basically torn between a tough love, sink or swim approach, and pushing to get a good array of applications in decent shape. Since it’s your money paying for college, I see nothing wrong with being a little bit pushy (in a good way, of course). By that, I mean insisting that your D talk with you about realistic options outside the StateU she is not excited about. If she wants privates, help her find the ones that give merit aid, and figure out where she fits in terms of her stats being well above the average. You can’t control her grades, but you can explain to her that a falling grade trend in senior year will be a huge roadblock if she is trying to get merit aid or into an Ivy. (Keep in mind that certain Ivies can be bargains for solidly middle-class people, so I wouldn’t write them off, if your D wants to pursue them.) She needs to make a list of options and be on top of the deadlines, but could probably use some guidance through the process if her life is as chaotic as it sounds. Don’t worry, you’ll both get through this!</p>

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<p>Agree with the comment above about the Ivies being bargains for the middle class. The aid offered by HYP is simply outstanding. The others offer good aid and no loans, but they’re not quite as generous.</p>

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<p>While we are middle class, her father and I are divorced, and her father married a wealthy woman with 5 houses in Florida who has no intention of selling them as a school would expect her to. I am not even sure her father will fill out the CSS Profile. And we are middle class in Chicago, which means good salaries but high cost of living. So I’ve been realistic about the chances for financial aid and have been hoping for merit aid. I’ve always wanted to prevent taking her father to court. On a good note, she would get in state tuition in the state of Florida, but she is snubbing her nose at that option too.</p>

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<p>You probably couldn’t take her father to courst as in most states he has no obligation to help with college.</p>

<p>The big issue I see here as that is a URM with a 31 and being in the top 10% of her class, she has a decent shot at an ivy. If you really don’t plan to let her attend, I’d be sure to make that very clear now so she really does focus on merit aid schools.</p>

<p>Don’t want to see you set both of you up for a rough April.</p>

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<p>With three B’s in the first quarter of her senior year, URM or not, I think her shots at Ivy will be gone. And I don’t even care about that. The biggest concern for me is her maturity level in going away to college, any college, and if she cannot balance fun with work now, how will she be able to handle it next year when she is already perceiving that “college isn’t that hard”? Maybe kids grow a lot this senior year; she is my first and I sure do hope they do! I’ve told her several times that Ivy and some of the other schools will be very difficult for her to attend, so she needs to focus on some other schools that give merit, but she chooses to ignore me. But I recall ignoring my father about colleges at that age too. Oh it’s going to be an interesting year…and then her brother is a year younger…thanks for the advice!</p>

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<p>Yeah, the maturity level is troubling but it’s not as if she’s the only one in the universe with that problem. </p>

<p>Three B’s in the first quarter won’t kill her chances…it’s the semester grades that are important. Signs of a “slacked off” senior will be deadly to the most competitive schools, not just the Ivies.
It would be a shame for her to **** away years of hard work for a few weeks of self-indulgence.</p>

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<p>Sympathy and empathy to the OP! A delightful, fun-filled sr. year sounds good in theory. Unfortunately, for both my MonsterSrBoys, it was theory only. We had, both times, all of the attitudes and behaviors you described. MonsterS #1 returned to niceboy gradually, beginning Thanksgiving of his college freshman year. Emphasize the word “gradually”. S#2 has just begun freshman college year, and niceboy is coming back a little more quickly (although never quickly enough…)</p>

<p>I concur that for the top kids in a non-competitive, no-pressure HS, the realities of a competitive college will hit home hard…and quickly. It’s a different ballgame when every student was top of his class, and most of the others had much better HS preparation.</p>

<p>I had sons, not daughters, and maybe that makes it different, but I disagree that at 17 you don’t need to nag/steer/push somewhat if you want chores done, college aps done, and senrioritis held a bit at bay. They just aren’t quite “there” in realizing how short-term delay can greatly affect the long-term picture.</p>

<p>With URM and 31 ACT, I also concur that your daughter may have a shot at some top notch schools and resulting good f/a. My decision was I wasn’t going to let a missed deadline ruin those chances–not when I would be the one left writing the check–it didn’t affect only his future, but mine too!</p>

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<p>Make sure you have a list of FAFSA only schools. Even though the top colleges are no loan and generous, the father and stepmother’s assets may shut you out of the financial aid there and they use the profile system. Some one on the financial aid forum could address that.</p>

<p>I can’t help with the attitude issue. Here’s hoping she can learn to think long term and not sabotage herself.</p>

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<p>Sounds like my world one year ago today…</p>

<p>All of what she’s saying is true, and she’s more than a tad scared of the outcome, of the workload (in those Ivys if she’s admitted) and of her own ability to manage stress. I concur that you must make sure that the one or two safety applications go out; after that, have one heart-to-heart conversation with her. Tell her in advance that you plan to have her sit down with you, and then you will explain why her choices make you nervous for her. Explain that this was the last conversation you will have on the topic, except to make sure that the two safety appplications (and the FAFSAs/Merit aid applications that accompany them) are filed. </p>

<p>Do whatever it takes to zip it after that conversation. Take up running. Cook. Count daisies. But, leave the rest up to her.</p>

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<p>I pretty much put together a list of colleges that I knew would be reasonable matches for my d (based on her preferences - larger school, warmer clime, offered the EC she has pursued for years, likelihood of acceptance, etc).</p>

<p>She dutifully applied to them in October (many were early action). Given her disinterest, I figured we would visit once we saw where she was accepted.</p>

<p>In November of her senior year she briefly panicked and I made arrangements for her to visit a few schools (to which she had already applied).</p>

<p>Fortunately she decided one of the schools we visited would be a good fit. Since the school was not a reach, she was accepted in December (early action) and all was well.</p>

<p>Her grades senior year were the worst of her high school career.</p>

<p>Now, her freshman year, she is finally sitting up and taking notice of her future. Whereas I was unable to talk to her during her senior year about courses and career plans, it is now real to her and we are communicating well on the issues. She is on track.</p>

<p>So my view is that you should simply focus on getting her into a college she would be willing to attend, and let everything else work its way out from there. If she is slacking off senior year, it will be a big relief to have some early action apps in that only take through junior year grades into account.</p>

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<p>“All of what she’s saying is true, and she’s more than a tad scared of the outcome, of the workload (in those Ivys if she’s admitted) and of her own ability to manage stress.”</p>

<p>That is so smart, anothermom3…really helps me see my own D’s situation better. Thank you!</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone for the great advice! I just want to point out with her father’s remarriage and his wife’s wealth, we would get laughed out of the financial aid arena even at Ivy League schools, and really, I don’t think it’s a good fit for her. I think she would be overwhelmed and intimidated. I’ve done some posting on the financial aid threads already, and the consensus was to look for merit aid schools as well as FAFSA. So she’s looking at Wooster, Denison, Ohio Wesleyan, Juniata, and she gets in state tuition in Florida, she is applying to New College and University of Florida. I think she needs another public safety; Florida isn’t a given anymore. She won’t consider anything in Illinois. She really likes Reed, the idea of Reed; she has never been there. But $0 merit aid. Do schools ever bend on financial aid if they really want a student, or is it formulaic? It seems like a very big black cloud to me.</p>

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<p>We’re having the same issue (Attitude) here with son. So I asked an acquaintance who is a child psychologist for advice. He was emphatic that a lot of kids behave this way because the process is overwhelming to them. He says this is usually a sign of stress and anxiety as well as part of the separation process. He also has a daughter who is a senior as well as two older children who completed graduate school.</p>

<p>His advice to me was:</p>

<p>1)Throw son in car and take him to look at schools (my son protests about having to do this).</p>

<p>2) Don’t expect them to get enthusiastic until they have seen a fair number of schools. </p>

<p>3) Set reasonable limits, goals and consequences for them. “I want to see page 1 of the common application filled out by 10pm tonight or your cellphone will be taken away for 24 hours”. Consequences should be short and immediate - not “You’re grounded for a week.”</p>

<p>4)Don’t give in to to them just because they are being rude, don’t argue, don’t try to reason - just be matter of fact about your expectations. AND don’t get sucked into an argument. That’s just what they want - to distract you!</p>

<p>He says that at this age they still need a lot of guidance and for many kids expecting them to do it on their own is not reasonable. There’s a LOT of fear and anxiety that goes along with the process. Think about it - most of us are here because we are overwhelmed, confused or anxious about the college application process. It’s 10 times worse for a kid at 17 or 18 years old. They are having to make decisions about where they will live for and attend school for the next 4-5 years - away from family and friends. </p>

<p>His final piece of advice was 'you and your child will regret it if you just step back and say ‘oh well, he will have to live with the consequences.’</p>

<p>Good luck. I feel your pain.</p>

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<p>Read this book, it might make you feel better :slight_smile: :
[Amazon.com:</a> Accept My Kid, Please!: A Dad’s Descent into College Application Hell (9780738209999): Hank Herman: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Accept-My-Kid-Please-Application/dp/0738209996/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253675004&sr=8-1]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Accept-My-Kid-Please-Application/dp/0738209996/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253675004&sr=8-1)</p>