@SugarlessCandy It would be very easy for this to devolve into “who has the worse situation” or something like that.
I get the impression that you feel your situation isn’t fair for your child.
IMHO that’s very dangerous thinking. Teaching a child that the world isn’t always going to be fair for them and it’s up to them to make things work is one of the greatest gifts you can give. Give them an outlook on life that you play the hand you’re dealt, figure out how to make it work for you and move on is a life skill very much worth having.
And not that it matters but we’re a full pay family. And not wealthy.
And if one attends a Federal Service Academy(West Point, Annapolis, USAFA, CGA) as a cadet, s/he will be considered an active duty member of the respective services of each of those academies under current law.
One upshot of this is from the moment they start their first day as cadets they are considered independent of their parents for FA purposes if they later decide to transfer out. Also, if they transfer out before starting the first day of their 3rd year at the academy, they won’t incur a service/financial obligation to repay the government for the education received*.
Such an obligation starts from the first day of the Academy cadet's third year. An older cousin who transferred out of his Service academy and finished at an HYPSMCC university back in the '80s had no service obligation from his one year there.
Recently I purchased a book that compared honors colleges at universities around the country. My state has a so so program. It was eye opening to see how high the scores were at many of the universities. Nothing mediocre about going to school there!
And this is the same scenario that probably more families than not find themselves in. It is not a matter of upper middle class families “paying” and other families “getting a free ride.” For every full pay family who can’t afford to be full pay, there is a family who might have an EFC of $25,000 that can’t come close to paying that. It is just as much of an impossibility for them to reach their $25,000 as the full pay family paying theirs. And so on down the $$ chain. What may seem like an insignificant amt to pay from a full pay perspective may be an insurmountable amt for a lower income family.
So you find other ways out of the dilemma. You college shop on a budget just like anything else. Those"mediocre" schools are full of incredibly talented kids bc, guess what, there are many, many families in the exact same situation. Many of those “mediocre” schools offer incredible opportunities to top students. In addition to the specialized programs, they offer merit scholarships which means that financial dilemma is mitigated. The high performing student receives the solid academic education they desire and has a cohort of equally academically strong peers.
For plenty of other kids, finding themselves on their local CC campus or directional university is the norm. They go on to graduate, be gainfully employed, and lead productive lives. And, gasp, some even become incredibly successful. Success is not derived solely from the institution on the diploma.
@SugarlessCandy, you DO realize that the VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORLD’S COLLEGE STUDENTS live at home, right? That it’s not some kind of punishment or outrageous humiliation? That the posh country club campuses are for a tiny percentage of young people around the planet? Are you even OF this planet? Because honestly, you sound like my teenage daughter when she whined how miserable she was because I wouldn’t buy her $150 pair of jeans. That she’d have to make do with the Gap.
@SugarlessCandy, There seems to be a strongly held belief among some people that only schools with a certain ranking are worth attending. Families will spend every dime – blow through their savings, cripple their retirement, and/or take on enormous debt – to fund a degree from these schools. Please don’t let this happen to your family.
I’m concerned you may be afraid that your daughter won’t be successful if you don’t send her to an elite school. Successful people come from all kinds of backgrounds. Well meaning people who see a kid with high stats sometimes push them to apply to brand name schools without considering parents’ ability to pay. You have to learn to tune those people out.
I think it’s important to plan out your expenses (retirement, assistance to extended family, a financial safety net for your daughter, etc.) and see what’s left for college after that. Find the number you can comfortably spend per year without jeopardizing your financial futures then start looking for schools in that price range. I think you’ll be surprised at the number of great options. With her stats, she’ll probably be able to get some nice merit aid too. The search will be easier if you make it a habit not to discuss it with neighbors or friends. We were vague about the schools our son was considering until he decided where to enroll.
One of the most important things is to give your daughter a firm budget before she starts searching for schools. It can be upsetting to be limited by finances, especially if a student hasn’t had to worry about money before, but the reality for most of us is that money matters. If you’re open to a variety of universities and cast a wide net, I’m sure she’ll do fine.
I agree with @CTTC. @SugarlessCandy it is admirable that you are helping your parents back home, but most of us do not have unlimited funds and we all have to make choices. To suggest that your D and similar kids be treated as “poor” so that she can get money from the taxpayers for an elite ( I hate that word) school while you send your money home ( again- very admirable) is just… wrong. You are actually quite lucky- you can afford to support your parents and send your D to college. It’s just not the college you want.
Again- what is wrong with the schools that might give her merit such as Case Western, Pitt, Northeastern, Tulane, etc? Why aren’t you embracing these options?
My older D went to one of our small state schools that most never heard of. It was originally not my first choice for her but they had an excellent reputation in her major and had the sports she wanted. She is now in an excellent grad program and her advisor has commented about how well prepared she was coming in ( from this small unknown school- my words not hers). She is doing great and I am confident that she will be employed following graduation.
My younger D is not at an Ivy but she is at an outstanding public university. She literally has opportunities thrown at her on a weekly basis including an unbelievable internship this summer that had me shaking for two hours.
@SugarlessCandy your D has the chance to attend an amazing school if you play your cards right. Stop obsessing about asking others to pay for upper middle class kids to attend Ivies for free or almost free- it’s not happening - nor should it happen. Be thankful for what you have and recognize that success depends on the kids ability to take full advantage of what is placed in front of them.
Attending an expensive $70,000 a year college is not a necessity. Period.
The affluent have a choice if they really want need based aid. They can quit their jobs...two full years before their eldest child enters college. Give away their nice home (because hoe equity counts too). Donate their savings to charitable causes. Move into subsidized housing, and apolynfor SNAP and free/reduced lunch. Just BE low income.
But wait…the OP wants to have the cake and eat it too.
Kid can apply to colleges where significant merit aid is offered. I know, I know...it won't be a top 20 school. Choices choices.
Kid can really fully fund a community college within commuting distance of their home with a Direct Loan...and income from a job. Then they can either transfer to a four year affordable school....or get a job, and get their bachelors by attending college part time. You know...it's possible to do this!
As I said upstream, the landscape of college financial aid is what it is. You need to work within that…not with what you wish it could be.
Is this question for real?
When a new poster blasts on the scene with multiple threads and multiple posts, its common for antennae to go up. If this is for real, it sounds like the OP is essentially looking for an entitlement, only they aren’t entitled to it.
Add me to the chorus of posters who say you are free to make choices. You chose to send $ to family (very nice) you chose to live in this country, to make lots of $, to want to send your kid to a top school. If you want your kid to go to school for next to nothing, let them apply to schools with great merit $ for his/her stats, or let them go to school in Germany.
You are fortunate that your family has no need, per the schools’ calculations, but don’t expect others to pay for your kids’ school the way you have paid for your parents’ needs back home. If you want to increase chances of finding free $, buy a lottery ticket.
Sorry, I don’t agree with the OP at all. Rich kids aren’t burdened by the current system; people from all socioeconomic backgrounds have to make tough choices when it comes to college.
I’m a current college student (junior) whose family is part of the middle class donut- too “rich” to qualify for any significant financial aid, but not rich enough to actually afford our EFC. It’s not just that my parents don’t want to pay. They literally cannot afford it.
My older brother studied music performance and got into arguably the top school for his instrument at the time. He would have graduated with almost $100k of debt if he went there. He was lucky that other top schools for his instrument really wanted him and he was able to negotiate scholarships elsewhere. He graduated from a top school for his instrument (not his top choice, however) with essentially no debt.
My parents learned their lesson, so when I applied to schools, I was told I had to either go in-state or get a full-tuition scholarship. I only applied to 4 schools; we didn’t even fill out the FAFSA. Guess what, I got full tuition scholarships to two excellent private schools. No, they weren’t top schools, but who cares. The school I chose is a great school and I’m getting an education practically free at this point (I have a couple other scholarships). I didn’t receive a “hand-out”; I worked hard for those scholarships, did my research, and I’m thankful that I received them (less than 1% of the applicant pool receives these competitive scholarships at these specific schools). If I hadn’t received a scholarship, I would have been living at home and attending the local public U that is 20 min away. Some of my friends at school that have the same scholarship I do turned down really prestigious schools to attend here. And they gladly did so.
I also knew people in high school who turned down Ivy League acceptances for an automatic scholarship at UAlabama (I believe it was full tuition; don’t know if they still do that).
There are options for those who can’t or don’t want to pay for the price top schools charge. It’s up to you whether you want to take advantage of them. But don’t expect any sympathy from me if you don’t. There are very few fields where the prestige of your undergraduate degree matters, so this really isn’t something to gripe about.
OP seems to be looking at extremes: it’s either a great college or subpar take-anyone school. I think if she did her own research into various college options, she’d catch up fast. On another thread, she said she’d get a Fiske Guide or similar. Let’s hope she has.
It doesn’t matter if she has some wild hair idea what would be more fair, then argues that ad infinitum. When you have a kid coming close to the app deadlines, that’s where the focus and energy belong. And it’s not asking strangers to compare colleges for you. Others can’t speak for your kid’s interests and the subtleties of what makes some colleges great matches in her major or for the other activities and opportunities she wants.
OP, getting a picture of your situation, from a long string of random posts, is tough. If you could afford to pay full freight, for the right college, we don’t know if that means you have it all set aside or are counting on present income, too. We don’t know if you have anything in retirement or this is all there is. We only know a few comments you shot out.
Have you run NPCs? (This gives an idea of costs for your situation, at each school.) Have you looked firsthand into dept strengths at various colleges, for her possible major and its allied fields, the actual courses, the professor strengths, research/internships available- the things that make the academic experience tops? (On your own, not asking others who may or may not have identical kids.) Or are you just peeling names off the top of some ranking? That more in-depth look can clarify much. Many of us will tell you how it opened our eyes. And then you look at costs, what you may get in aid, what merit money may apply.
Otherwise, you’re spinning your wheels. Even Naviance can’t replace this look.
@bodangles
“I’m studying chemical engineering. Couldn’t get that at a community college.”
Actually, you could have gone and attended a community college and major in Engineering Science. Taking all the pre-reqs such as
Calculus 1,2,3
General Chemistry 1 and 2
Organic Chemistry 1 and 2
A possible Engineering course
I know you attend Penn State, but if you actually took this path. Then you would have less debt to worry about because you’ll only be at Penn State for two years or Three years (Depending since some courses are only offer once a year).
@NASA2014 Penn State doesn’t take engineering transfers, so I’d be going somewhere else with no guarantee that the cost would rival the relatively good deal I’m getting right now with merit from Schreyer and the engineering department.
DH did just that. Took courses at the local CC, whichnhad an articulation agreement with several four year universities that offered engineering majors. Once done with the general education courses, he transferred easily to the four year school. Bonus…the engineering school also offered the co-op option…which he choose.
Four year plan…no! But did he finish with less debt? Yes! And a job offer as well.
Ok, I read all 12 pages, slow Saturday and doing our laundry.
I do think we should do more for students from families that make between 125-200K- families who make too much for FA, but not enough to pay full fare (donut hole). Many of those families are from high cost areas, after paying for housing and necessities there isn’t that much left for education or for anything else. At the same time, students from families like that probably are the ones that could get the most out of “elite education.” They are in general more emotionally stable and are more grounded than students from very wealthy or lower income families (I know this is a bit of generalization), therefore they could better at taking advantage of what those elite colleges have to offer. I know students in the donut hole have many options, they are not shut out of good education, but I do think it is a shame the elite education is not an option for them.
We were full pay family, but it was done through a lot of sacrifices on my part. If I was unwilling to pay, I know my kids could have gone to next tier down schools with full merit aids because of their stats. I think parents who can’t afford to pay much for their kids’ college education should encourage their kids to do as well as possible in high school and apply to schools that offer great merit aids.
More emotionally stable and grounded? Based on what?
Yes, we could do more for donut folks- and some colleges do try. But this thread started about parents who can- but refuse to- pay and whether the school and govt should just cover them, so the parents can do as they wish. And included excuses for those parents.
We have to get away from the knee jerk idea there are good colleges (elite) and the rest are for shame.
