<p>^^ i agree with you and congrats for making it this far! although we're at a disadvantage, i'd rather earn my way and struggle a little cuz what doesn't kill u only makes you stronger</p>
<p>My parents have a higher income but they were largely uninvolved in my application and selection process. I did almost all the research on my own. They were definitely supportive and encouraging but they saw it is "my thing". I am extremely grateful for that. On my tour of Mizzou, both my mother and I were put off by parents who seemed more interested in the college than their students, or used the term "we" when it was really their child going to college. Obviously, there are some parents like that on this board, and its great that you are involved in your child's life.... but all this to say that, its not impossible or even necessarily really difficult to go through the college application process on your own. Also, I don't think it necessarily is like that for lower income families. I had plenty of friends in high school with very involved parents when it came to choosing their college, and they were not high income. Yes, some kids may choose to go in state or close to home, but that doesn't mean their parents weren't supportive or involved. Perhaps that was just the best choice for them - there is nothing shameful about going in state. Also, they may have not been able to afford an Ivy League, but that doesn't mean their parents were not supportive or involved.</p>
<p>for me, my parents never had education past highschool. My mom did after she came to this country but even still her admissions process was not traditional and was very different from mine. They didn't really have much of an idea what the whole process entailed. Neither did I, so I borrowed a lot of undergrad admissions books to figure out the process. As for keeping motivated to go to college, I see my parents struggling everyday, especially my dad because of his lack of education. That's what really motivates me to get higher education. </p>
<p>For the college process thing, I read a bunch of college admissions books so I could represent myself well on paper b/c really the application is all that I had to represent myself to schools. I felt there were a lot of resources for me (I borrowed the books from my local library) so...Reading these books helped me learn how to compensate for my terrible standardized test scores. And a lot of the schools on my list, I considered "reach" schools...so I'm not really expecting to get into most of them, but we'll see.</p>
<p>With many low/middle income kids are working jobs after school, I wish that more selective colleges would give full consideration to a Letter of Recommendation from the employer. Some colleges will only allow academic (or core academic) subject teachers to write the LOR's.</p>
<p>Employers, however, can attest to work ethic which is surely relevant to college performance, as well as success with on-campus jobs expected as part of those finaid packages.</p>
<p>If a sports coach is allowed to make a pitch for an athlete, why not let an employer call in and recommend his employee? Just a thought.</p>
<p>Most colleges will take additional letters of recommendation, and both of my sons submitted such letters. Older S submitted a letter about volunteer service he had done for years with a community newspaper. That included his being a section editor. Younger S submitted a letter from his Americorps supervisor.</p>
<p>Understandably to me that colleges want letters from teachers of core subjects. Despite a strong work ethic and high scores, older S had underperformed in h.s. and flunked out of college. Just because a person is motivated and responsible on the job doesn't mean that they rise to the challenge of academics.</p>
<p>Also, look at the employers......if the student works fast food industry, can his "boss" even write well enough to establish a great letter of recommendation? For one particular scholarship in which my daughter applied, we needed a recomendation from a past soccer coach. The decision whom to ask was who could write and convey thoughts best in word, her abilities.</p>
<p>I had no help from my parents, my mom tossed me her w-2 and made me do the FAFSA by myself and I applied to 5 schools, including schools like NYU. I did okay without any help.</p>
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I had no help from my parents, my mom tossed me her w-2 and made me do the FAFSA by myself and I applied to 5 schools, including schools like NYU. I did okay without any help.
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<p>I think that one of the disconnects is with low income students is while some research the school, they may not do a good enough job or getting enough help when it comes to researching financial aid at their schools and neglecting to include a financial safety (meaning should you be admitted, the school is a financially feasible option).</p>
<p>From many of the posts that I have read, some students think that if they have a zero or low EFC that it is all good because they will essentially get a free ride when this statement is not close to being remotely true. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that the only thing the FAFSA does is qualify you for federal aid (pell, stafford loans, perkins loans, SEOG -if the school has the funds available). </p>
<p>With your zero EFC, the only thing that you would be "guaranteed" would be federal aid:</p>
<p>pell grants max is $4050</p>
<p>SEOG ( based on if the school has monies available)</p>
<p>Subsidized stafford loan of 3500 (as a freshman)</p>
<p>A perkins loan of 4000 (if the school deems you to have a great need)</p>
<p>federal work study</p>
<p>an academic competitiveness grant of $750</p>
<p>another 4000 (unsubsidized stafford loan) if your parents are not eligible for a PLUS loan.</p>
<p>Depending on where you live (for example if you live in NYS you would be eligible for the maximum TAP award, if you are a California resident, you would be eligible for a Cal grant or state aid, from what ever state that you reside in.</p>
<p>Let’s say I am an out of state student applying to NYU and I have a “0” EFC. Should she be admitted to NYU the gap in financial aid could be huge especially at a school like Tisch where the cost of attendance is breathing on about $50,000 per year.</p>
<p>Even with getting the maximum federal monies, I am only at $16,300 (and $11,500 of this is loans for the first year). Should NYU give me their top scholarship of 25,000 (unlikely as VERY FEW are given) I would be at $41300 and have a gap of about 8000 (how would you make this money up as having a zero EFC does not put me a good position to take out money without a co-signer as my parents may not be credit worthy or have the income/assets needed to take a personal loan (Individual mileage may vary if I was a NYS student and HEOP eligible).</p>
<p>Most schools that accept the FAFSA only, do not meet 100% of demonstrated need meaning that they gap (you must fill this gap the best way you can</p>
<p>Most of the schools that meet 100% demonstrated need that are heavy on grant aid or have no loan initiatives for low income students are still amongst the most competitive as far as gaining admission. </p>
<p>Even once you have gain admission, there is still a self help component (student contribution from summer earnings, work study) and start up monies need to go on your way (monies, to set up your room, purchase books, computers (your home computer may not be a viable match for the type of system required by your school), school supplies, etc.). If you have used all of your monies, just to get to school, you could go for weeks without books until you get your work-study check (see thread on class divide).</p>
<p>It goes way beyond "being able to apply adequately for college". </p>
<p>The disadvantage begins in elementary school, when unsophistocated parents lack the knowledge or ability to fight for their kid's right to a decent education. What happens? A bright student is tagged as "average" and shuffled through the system without the better opportunities that are offered to bright kids with pushy parents. I saw this first hand at a chamber of commerce education committee meeting where the "solution" to the "increasing Hispanic 'problem' " was touted as "vocational education". </p>
<p>So are these kids at a disadvantage? Absolutely.</p>
<p>sybbie719, I'm not sure why you quoted me in order for you to respond. It sounds as if your information can be used by anyone and had no direct link to me nor to my quote.</p>
<p>That's true and if you think that I am using your quote to pick on you, then I apologize I used your quote because you specifically mentioned NYU (and I guess you responded because the title of the thread says " Who Supports Low/Middle Income Kids During App Process?" and I guess you thought the topic pertained to you so you decided to share your experience.</p>
<p>However, it was easy for me to quote your situation as being a NYU graduate and current NYU student (believe me when I tell you most of the people that I know personally are either at one end of the spectrum or the other, full paying, or having very little debt or those who are going to have exorbitant debt (graduation is the second week in May and there are people who ave no idea how they are going to tackle this debt once it becomes due in November. I was lucky enough that my employer paid all of my tuition my first round at NYU, so that time I got away debt free).</p>
<p>Also, it has been my experience as a parent of a college student, an in my professional life in my work life my job has quite a number of employees who attend NYU so I have done a lot of talking to the employees in their bursar and financial aid offices, I am well versed on their financial aid policies as I have had to personally call when undergrads got dropped for not having bills paid to tell them how much of the gap we will pay. I have seen many people drop of of NYU because the cost is more than they could bear (and my company offers a very generous tuition reimbursement plan)</p>
<p>It is very easy to get things twisted in thinking that while you may do whatever you need to do to get yourself admitted my yourself, if you can come up with the money, the net net is you're not going to be in attendance there or anywhere else (as I stated before, many low income students, don't have the support systems they need in place to break down the whole financial aid situation especially where it concerns schools that do not meet 100% of demonstrated need, nor do they know who aid is packaged from one school to the next. Looking over your posts and seeing that you have a "0" efc, it is very likely that you may not get the monies you need to attend NYU (take in to consideration that on average they only meet about about 65% of your need and packages their FA as 41% loans</p>
<p>But if you've got it all handled, then its all good. However, remember if you think the cost of education is expensive, try the cost of ignorance (especially if you are not fully aware what you could be getting into).</p>
<p>NO, no, no. I only meant that the information was useful to everyone. I didn't mean it to sound the way it reads.</p>
<p>no problem :) just trying to share some information.</p>
<p>I am gonna tell my story here because I feel that it is relevant. If it sounds like bragging when I talk about any accomplishments, then I apologize, as it isn't the intention -- I'm simply relaying my experience to show people an unusual outcome and situation. I worked extremely hard to get where I am now.</p>
<p>I attended public schools all my life. Was never really happy with them, but my parents always said private schools were too expensive and not necessary. They weren't able to ever proofread any papers or teach me math -- nothing. It isn't so much that I am blaming them for this, but it was disappointing to me as a child. I'd hear about all my friends and how their parents were able to teach them various things and it would make me feel like I was missing out. All I seemed to get from my parents were groundings for using the computer too much or for fighting with a brother who was given special treatment despite his antagonistic nature.</p>
<p>My parents also never drove me to extracurricular activities because they felt it was a chore. So I'd either have to find alternate transportation via buses or sheepishly ask friends for rides. Basically, my parents were totally out of the picture when it came to education, growing up. Neither of them did that well in high school, and since they never went to college, they didn't know anything about it at all. I love them to death, but when I needed help, I couldn't turn to them.</p>
<p>Come high school, I took my SAT's three times and got a composite of 1590 with 800's on all my SAT2's, eventually graduating as a valedictorian. My father had also passed away in a fatal car accident senior year. As a result, we had no income. I was incredibly devastated... I had lost my father, my mother was in poor condition, and my brother went further down the wrong path with the wrong group of friends. I had a rank to maintain, SATs to take, colleges to apply to, recs to ask for, money to manage, emotions to consider, and a family to hold together.</p>
<p>Most people in my school simply went to the local state schools. Nobody really left the state or sought better schools more suited to their interests. It was just something you did. Graduate high school -- go to the state school. I had a desire to do well on the SATs, and I eventually found this site, and it taught me tons about colleges.</p>
<p>I applied to 15 schools (Penn, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Brown, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, UVA, Tufts, Georgetown, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Lehigh, and the state school). It took me forever to finally finish all the essays and fill out all the relevant financial aid forms. It was especially hard since after my father's death, my mom was no longer home. She was in too much of a mess and she didn't want to talk to me about anything regarding her own emotions -- she was simply unable to and I couldn't get close to her. So I had to do everything alone again.</p>
<p>I was eventually rejected by Princeton but I heard good things otherwise. Probably one of the happiest days of my life -- I had worked extremely hard for so many years, and I felt like that day was my reward for all that had happened. There was such a nice array of colleges to choose from. I decided to attend Penn, where I am now.</p>
<p>Basically, I'm just relaying this story to let everyone know that it's possible to achieve whatever you want. I grew up with such envy -- I hated how so many kids had educated parents with money, and I still do envy to some extent. But I had my own desire to do well and choose a path that was different, and so I did the necessary research and prepared as best as I could. I'm proud of these accomplishments because I was first-gen and had go to seek out college information alone and figure out the whole process with respect to applying to the schools, properly getting financial aid, calculating general costs, etc.</p>
<p>Anyways I am not sure if anyone's gonna take the time to read all that, but that's my story. I probably forgot to mention important things, but eh. There you have it :P</p>
<p>LegendofMax,
Thanks for posting your inspirational story.</p>
<p>Hi Max,</p>
<p>Thanks for posting your story. Hope that all is going well for you at Penn.</p>
<p>I don't have siblings and I am a first generation college student in America. My parents were both unfamiliar with the american system of applying to colleges and I have found that my high school guidance counselor was extremely helpful.</p>
<p>Thank you, bella89. As I've been kind of watching over this thread (OP here) I see that after over 100 replies, you're the first to say anything positive about your GC!
I've been wondering about that piece of the puzzle. They do get either bashed here on CC or at best pitied as being "overburdened."
Can anyone give voice to the overworked GC's point-of-view, if there are any reading this?
Plus, we're all learning a lot from hearing from the students themselves, so keep posting! We know if you're a student you had to wander over to Parents Forum to even read this thread, so clearly you are curious and resourceful students (or you needed a study break :)</p>
<p>"I was eventually rejected by Princeton "</p>
<p>Legendofmax,
So, who DOES Princeton accept, then?? If not you???</p>
<p>Newzbugg: I applied Princeton ED, and was deferred and eventually rejected. My ED App was quite a bit different than my RD Apps, though. Admittedly, I don't know if it would have made a difference. My essays for the ED App weren't that great and the whole thing was quite sloppily put together. The way you present your application is pretty important, I think. I spent a lot of time ensuring that the presentation aspect of the RD Apps was how I wanted it to be (organization, structure, articulation, quality, emotion, etc). Again, I have no idea if it would have made a difference because, simply put, Princeton is hard to get accepted to! When it comes to the Ivy League, you can never really predict the outcomes of admissions.</p>