<p>Trust me Xiggi, I'm not taking any school for granted which is why I'm posting here!</p>
<p>Xiggi:</p>
<p>I understand, and I don't generall use the word "safety" lightly. The way I see it, a white applicant, top class rank from Andover, double-legacy, with SAT scores very near the 75th percentile with a good application would be a strong-match and is not going to be rejected very often by Dartmouth, Brown, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst, Duke, etc. Honestly, a rejection under that scenario would almost require something on the app that blows the student out of the water: horrible recommendations, annoyingly pretentious or conceited essays, or something that just screams "priviledged silver-spoon dullard". Heck, that application without the legacy is an admit more often than not at most of those schools.</p>
<p>Now, add in the African-American URM status. </p>
<p>If Suze really has decided on Dartmouth and a little bit here or there on financial aid is not a make or break deal, I belive that a solid ED application would be as close to 100% admissions odds as you can get. The yield for Af-Am students at these colleges is so pathetic, that I cannot imagine Dartmouth (or comparable schools) not jumping at the opportunity to lock in a 1510 SAT, top Andover rank, Af-Am applicant with a binding ED commitment. Just to throw some numbers out, Swarthmore just accepted 108 Af-Am students. They will throw a party and break out the champagne in the admissions office if they can enroll 30% of those. Why do you think these schools mail URM kids so many plane tickets?</p>
<p>Suze: I think what you are kicking around has the makings of an excellent Why Dartmouth? essay. The one caution is that it need to be about YOU not your mother. So, you need to work your mother's experience in tangentially, perhaps some kind of reflection on the stark contrast between your excitement about your opportunity to attend Dartmouth and the trepidation your mother must have felt.</p>
<p>If you are so inclined, you could even make it very specfic. For example, spend time with the black students organization on campus during an overnight and compare the "vibrant, thriving, confident" group you found to your mother's experience as one of the early founders of the organization trying to define a role at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>That's just an example, but it's the kind of specifics that show you have investigated the college and help turn a "generic" essay into something more concrete.</p>
<p>For example, rather than talk generically about community service at Swarthmore, my D wrote about specific people she had met with in the program there. Those are the little things that make a "good" application. You want the adcoms to think you have really thought about it, and are not just whipping together a bunch of apps from info in the USNEWS guide.</p>
<p>Suze -- interestedad is SO right that I have almost nothing to add. I would never consider any school at that level a safety, but as long as you focus on YOUR struggles as a racially mixed student at a preppie school and use your mom only tangentially ast interestedad suggests, you should be fine. Say, who is interestdad? He's VERY on target with all his comments (as are many in this forum -- you are all very informed, Xiggi too!). I'm impressed. Yes, if I had to pick any category to make Ivy admissions sure, I'd be a hockey player or a URM. And the former often have extremely low scores. As for essays, I'd read through Harry Bauld's book carefully and read the examples in Acing the College Application to get an idea of what to avoid and what to stress. Harry and I used to work together at the Putney School (where he still teaches -- he's the BEST)! I always recommend his books too.</p>
<p>Hey Suze:</p>
<p>If you are lookin' for a "literary device" for the kind of essay I'm talking about, start the essay with your and your mother sitting at the dining room table looking at an old snapshot of her and her friends on the steps of the Black Cultural House at Dartmouth she dug out of a scrapbook to show you when you are excitedly showing her the photos from your overnight on your digital camera.</p>
<p>That's an example of a way you can use a simple, shared moment to convey a lot of introspection and meaning without having to "get all gushy" in a college essay.</p>
<p>While we're on the subject of URMs, I would like to ask how physical disabilities are treated in the admissions process. My parents and others I've met think it is a boost because of the whole "overcoming hardship" thing, but I've never heard anywhere that this is the case.</p>
<p>Thank you for your time.</p>
<p>Cutter Hall, my mother did actually live there and there is a picture of her and college friends outside of it hanging in her den.</p>
<p>Thank you so much interesteddad, you have really helped me to fine tune my thinking. The distinction you made between telling my story and my mother's is a mistake I might well have made.</p>
<p>Wolfpiper:</p>
<p>There is no box to check off for physical disabilities, but I think it can make for a compelling story. It depends how you present it in your essay. Instead of "how I overcame my disability" you might weave the theme into a description of your typical day that would include you taking advanced language classes, taking taekwondo (have I got that right), etc... The reader would thus be made aware of the limits on your mobility and stamina but also of your accomplishments and your interests both academic and non-academic.</p>
<p>I am so impressed by the willingness of the knowledgeable parents on this board to assist other people's children. Your generosity knocks me over. I've been reading these boards for only a few days and hope that my daughter will choose to jump on board, too, as she begins her process this spring and summer. Just a few questions from a novice:
1) What is a URM?
2) Could someone address the question of the CRS, quartile ranks, and small class size (my daughter has 66 classmates) which automatically penalizes her in the AI computation? Is there anyone to minimize this impact on the application?
3) After reading these boards (and Dr. Hernandez's book and half of "The Gatekeepers"), I'm already feeling discouraged about my daughter's chances as a white kid of 2 doctors (both mid level univ med school faculty) who goes to a private prep school. I have a perhaps jaded perspective since I'm on the med school faculty at U of Mich and watched the lawsuits against the U progress through the courts. The undergraduate school got burned because they assigned a "points" system to race to raise the admission rates of minorities...the more selective colleges do the same thing, they just tag the record without assigning a number to the race card advantage. I agree with interesteddad that the time will be a delight when race doesn't matter and admissions are both need-blinc and race-blind.</p>
<p>Sorry about the typo in the second question. I meant "Is there any WAY to minimize the effect of quartile ranking and small class size on CRS calculation?" Although the school only reports quartile rank, do the schools know that my D's induction into the honor society that only selects the top 5% of the junior class means that she must be ranked in the top 4 and use that number? Or do they use the midpoint of the quartile rank supplied by the school? It's a BIG difference in the overall CRS calculation.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cutter Hall, my mother did actually live there and there is a picture of her and college friends outside of it hanging in her den.
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</p>
<p>Well, there ya go! So here's the first line of your essay:</p>
<p>"I must have seen that old photo hanging in my mother's den a million times, but it never meant anything until "Andy" and "Jane" walked me over to Cuter Hall from the admissions office. And, then it hit me..."</p>
<p>BTW, I think you've got two essays here, so give some thought as to how you can divvy up what you want to say between them. One essay is a story about your experiences jumping between two different worlds: the black public schools and the hoity-toit prep school. I think that is great "personal statement" essay material, again emphasizing the recommendation to keep it positive rather than "over-coming hardship", which is overused, IMO.</p>
<p>The second essay is "Why Dartmouth?". Here is where you can get specific in your enthusiasm, that is probably quite different from your mother's anticipation of Dartmouth.</p>
<p>You should have a lot of respect for your mother, BTW. The early Af-Am students at these elite colleges were in uncharted water and really struggled with identity, resentment, and a whole host of issues. IMO, it was a frustrating time for everyone.</p>
<p>If you are interested in a personal account of the times, here is a really gripping new first-person historical article by the head of the black students group that took over the admissions office at Swarthmore in 1969 with a set of demands and then saw things turn ugly as the President of the College keeled over dead of a heart attack during the week-long negotiations. It's the kind of article that would probably trigger some interesting discussions between you and your Mom, perhaps providing some essay fodder.</p>
<p>"I agree with interesteddad that the time will be a delight when race doesn't matter and admissions are both need-blind and race-blind."</p>
<p>And I agree as well, as long as the "race doesn't matter" part applies to American culture overall. </p>
<p>Echo. . .no need to be discouraged about your Ds college chances. With her family and academic background there are scores of colleges that will admit her and offer her a chance to excel.</p>
<p>Ecosensei, URM stands for unrepresented minority. The unrepresented part is important because at most schools this classification excludes Asians and focuses on African-Americans, Latina/os and Native Americans and every possible combination therein.</p>
<p>I think that the unranked-rank question is a good one. Many academically rigorous high schools stopped ranking because the competition between students (and their families) was getting too intense and counter-productive. The practice of not ranking has become so common and widespread that the colleges have learned to cope by sifting through information provided by the guidance counselors. </p>
<p>My son's high school didnt rank but if they did due to a very competitive pool he would have fallen into the second decile. (This was always frustratingly contradictory to me: either rank or dont rank!) The GCs had a whole battery of careful phrases that communicated this position positively and expalined what it meant in comparison to his peers.</p>
<p>My best advice to you would be to have a heart-to-heart with your daughters GC and find out how s/he intends to characterize the rank question. Since shes at a prep school, my guess is they are well prepared to present their students in the most positive light.</p>
<p>Dont be discouraged. Those white, bright, talented, middleclass kids do get into top schools. It just takes a lot more strategizing on the familys part, a wider selection of colleges, and a knock-out application.
ED is a big boost.</p>
<p>Its early in the game for your daughter and youve come to the right place for advice. The important thing is to consider a wide range of schools and have that safety in your pocket. (I assume that it would be Michigan, which is a big plus right off the blocks.)</p>
<p>PS, Im a UMich alum and Ive watched the AA lawsuits with great interest. This is an issue that is to be with us for years to come.</p>
<p>PSS, Since I never miss a chance to put in a plug for my sons college Ill say take a look at Williams. I looked at your daughters profile and think shed like Williams a lot academically and socially and would be able to pursue her music, theater and golf ECs. The college would be ideal for a double major of chemistry and theater.</p>
<p>Echo:</p>
<p>The reason I recommend "The Gatekeepers" is precisely because it is the punch in the stomach that parents and students need to get them focused on the GAME of admissions. </p>
<p>It took me a year to get my daughter to read it. She finally picked it up and didn't put it down until she was finished. Her attitude towards college applications changed instantly. She was pretty determined to win the GAME and got "into" the strategy of the application. I think The Gatekeepers enabled her to take a couple of risks on her application because she understood that she had nothing to lose. What's the worst that can happen? They reject me? But, that's going to happen anyway if I don't take the risk, so big deal...</p>
<p>Now, the good news. It's not really that bad out there. As long as you don't start the game with unrealistic expectations and put yourself in a mindset that there are at least a hundred winning hands, the GAME is kind of fun.</p>
<p>As for rank and the AI index, it makes the process seem a little more mechanical than it really is (at schools smaller than UMich). Colleges have their ways of sorting out appropriate class ranks at various types of schools. For example, the cut-off point for my daughter's college is surely different coming from her so-so public high school than it would be coming from Newton-North (a wealthy suburban public) or Boston Latin (a top urban magnet) or a parochial school or Andover Prep. But, the adcoms sort it out. </p>
<p>What you need to focus on is figuring out where kids like yours from his or her prep school have gotten accepted. The specific schools don't matter -- you are trying to pinpoint a range. For example, lets say you've got a Vanderbilt. Well, from that, you can establish a realistic bracket that might include Emory, Wake Forest, Davidson, Grinnell, or whatever. Or, if you've got a Williams, then you know that Swarthmore, Amherst, Pomona, Brown, Darthmouth, UChicago are contained in a plausible bracket. It is critical to make sure that you factor minority status and/or athletic recruiting into the picture when you look at the history of admits from your school.</p>
<p>Calibrating the bracket based on comparable kids from your high school is the most critical step, IMO. We had it hard in the sense that D's school doesn't send a lot of kids to top colleges every year. However, we did know that they had sent an occassional kid to Harvard, so even though nobody had ever applied to her somewhat less selective college, we knew that it wasn't impossible. Of course, we also had an absolute class rank that helped calibrate.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for your insights. Momrath, I've never heard of a big roller coaster on tiny Whitmore Lake (we're halfway between Ann Arbor and Brighton), but we've only been at U of M for 8 years.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, indeed the range of college choices of graduating seniors is quite broad from this school. Most, approx 20 to 25/70, go to U of M. Each year approximately 6 to 10 (10 to 15% of the class) go to Ivies (1 or 2 each across mostly HYP, Columbia, Dartmouth). Only 1 or 2 are URM, because this school just isn't that diverse (though is getting better now that substantial FA is available). Other college choices include the small Ivies (3 or 4), large state U (usually Michigan State), and significant numbers to Midwest LAC's. GC told us at parent's "college night" last fall that kids who want to get in to elite colleges must expect to have been "Greenhills Scholars" for their entire HS career (an "award" given to a student who has no grade lower than an A- as an end of year grade). In the fresh and soph years, this can be 30 to 40% of the class, in the jr year, it drops to <10% because, for most kids, AP classes start to be taken in earnest. We know D is in top 5% (means top 4 or 5 in class) because she's been chosen for the Cum Laude Society. D was GS in both fresh and soph years, but an end of year B+ in AP US History will prob keep her off the list this year. My husband has been reluctant to meet one on one with the GC, because he just doesn't trust them after his (remote) experiences in high school. After sharing the contents of my research thus far, he, last night, admitted it would be a good idea to sit down with the GC to sort out what the school's level of support for her app would be. The school's equivalent to a GC letter is done by a committee of 3 faculty who have access to the kid's file and any supplementary material the kid submits, but may or may not be the kid's teacher or GC. Since it's a small school, usually the kid has had at least one of them somewhere in the hs career. </p>
<p>So, we're engaging in the game. Since acceptances came out for this year's seniors (a couple of weeks ago), my d has shown more interest in learning how it's played. Two of the "top" students from the school, an Asian with perfect SAT and ACT scores and GPA (no EC except Forensics) and the student body president with good grades and scores, did not get in to any Ivy (only safety was U of M for both and their parents are not happy), so she's willing to entertain the notion that getting in to her top choices is going to take more than just her grades and scores. In the last week, I think I've started to get through that she needs to find a safety she'd love and not just U of M like all the other kids on the block. I've asked her to look at Oberlin (prob more a match than a safety) and Barnard among others.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Two of the "top" students from the school, an Asian with perfect SAT and ACT scores and GPA (no EC except Forensics) and the student body president with good grades and scores, did not get in to any Ivy (only safety was U of M for both and their parents are not happy)>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>From the knowledge I've gained on CC, I could have predicted both that strategy (Asian with perfect scores and no EC) as well as that outcome. If the student had applied to some less selective schools than the Ivies, he would have had his pick. Terrific colleges such as Bowdoin and midwestern LACS are trying very hard to diversity and would give an edge to an Asian as well as to an African-Amerian or Hispanic.</p>
<p>Echo:</p>
<p>I would just like to point out the extreme danger in using the phrase "The Ivies". Admission at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are very, very different than admissions at Dartmouth, Brown, Penn, and Cornell. Columbia is more difficult to categorize because of the additional demand for the NYC location.</p>
<p>BTW, from what you have described, your school does "rank", they just say they don't. Based on the info you provided, I'm fairly confident that your school will provided plenty of information to the college's about Echo, Jr's rank and that information should be helpful to the admissions chances at appropriate schools.</p>
<p>BTW, with such an excellent state university, you would probably be nuts to not include UMich on the list as an admissions and financial "safety". That's a no-brainer for residents of states with excellent (and heavily subsidized) state universities.</p>
<p>Although rank obviously gives the universities great info about a student's ability to perform in his/her environment, it can be misleading, too. As an example: at our school, there are enough French and Spanish language students that we have AP classes in those languages. We also have Japanese, but no AP option for this language. So the kids who take Japanese are clearly at a disadvantage so far as ranking is concerned. It is entirely possible - trust me on this!! - that the decision of whether to take French or Japanese is the deciding factor on whether you are in the top 10% or not.</p>
<p>The College Board is currently preparing an AP curriculum/test for Japanese. The Japanese teacher at my daughter's high school is on the committee. I think it will be available in the next year or two.</p>
<p>Developing an interactive and supportive relationship with the GC is ideal. When it works, it's great. When it doesn't work it can be the source of great anxiety as this is not a person whom you want to alienate. Parents who know "too much" can be perceived as threatening to the GC, but on the other hand, there is no one who knows your kid like you do. It's really a balancing act.</p>
<p>GCs can err in both directions -- being over confident that their star student will get into super-selective or being negative to the point of discouragement. Either way that's where the parents need to intercede. Keeping a balance of optimism and pessimism is one of the most frustrating aspect of the whole search and application process. That's why the seemingly contradictory advice -- Aim high, but love your safety -- is so important to take to heart.</p>
<p>This was a tough year for admissions and the tier of schools that were generally thought of as safeties for many HYP & AWS hopefuls have moved up a notch into the match category. Many GC's are just not up to date on what's going on out there, which has led to disappointment across the board. Finding and loving a safety requires a lot more energy than doing the same for an elite, but for sure, they're out there. </p>
<p>The LACs pay a lot of attention to the subjective information that they receive in the application packages. This isn't to say that rank, scores and grades are not important; it's just that the LACs take a holistic approach and evaluate recommendations, essays, talents, interests and hooks very carefully. A strength in one area can compensate for a weakness in another. It sounds like your daughter's school has a thorough system in place for writing evaluations, but the system, as always is only as good as the people behind it. In addition to the GC recommendation, schools require two academic recommendations. From my understanding, these carry more weight than the GC's. </p>
<p>My take is that HYPSM are more numbers driven just because of the sheer volume of applicants. Again, strengths can compensate for weaknesses especially if the hooks are in categories that they need to balance the class; however, the chance of this happening is low again because of the choices available to the adcom. </p>
<p>I don't see your daughter's lack of definitive rank as being a weakness in her application. The colleges are used to this as it is very common especially at schools with high achievers. From what you've told us about her tangibles and intangibles there is nothing that will keep her out of any college in America. (Don't worry about those occasional B's.) The problem is that there's just no guarantee.</p>
<p>Very important to have your D consider schools like Oberlin and Barnard, and not just as Ivy back-ups. For certain students, excellent arguments can be made for either of those schools (and other LACs) as superior options to Ivies.</p>