I was wondering why all the SUNY university centers were ranked much lower than all the popular state flagships (UofMichigan, UCs, UVA, etc.). I generally hear that they are good schools (Binghamton and Stony Brook) but the rankings put them below most of the other big state flagships.
Especially UVM: I thought Bing and SB were better than UVM.
Binghamton is in the top 10 in Kiplingers for Out of State Value.
I think it might be to do with the fact they don’t really have a flagship…the resources are not concentrated in any one location.
@bopper I think that too. But the UC system has several very elite colleges without any one being called a flagship (ucb and UCLA are kind of equal?) I know rankings aren’t that important but it seems like they deserve to be higher
Another reason is the proximity of the SUNYs to selective private colleges. To use a hypothetical, if the University of Michigan was transposed onto the New York State college landscape, it would rank about tenth in selectivity, at least as can be quantified by SAT scores. But Michigan’s reputation, unlike that of the SUNYs, is unaffected by this comparison because of its Midwestern location.
For anyone interested, I posted a few statistics on a similar topic on a Binghamton thread. I posted the figures simply to show that Binghamton holds its own.
^ That makes no sense. UNC and Berkeley are highly ranked, despite close proximity to Duke and Stanford. Even UVM is near Dartmouth. Proximity to selective privates has nothing to do with SUNY rankings.
^ You are free to come to your own conclusion, though it doesn’t seem data-based. All you did was offer a couple of examples, which are merely probative at best. And UNC has only three colleges of greater selectively within its home state, not ten. Additionally, I’m not sure what you specifically mean by “highly ranked,” as you didn’t specify by whom. Nor did the OP, for that matter.
Berkeley is the flagship of California with the nickname “Cal”.
I’d say the SUNYs are comparable to California’s CSU system, rather than California’s UC system.
Berkeley insists that it’s the only California flagship, while UCLA insists that California has two flagships - Berkeley and UCLA.
@merc81 I was talking about the US News ranking. Anyways, IMO they should be way higher in the rankings. Certainly above Syracuse.
If I thought of USNWR as being extremely relevant, I might argue your case along with you. Perhaps it may suffice for now to acknowledge that a few of the SUNYs have higher entering SAT scores than a few of the top 50 National Universities. That, in itself, is certainly not insignificant.
Btw, I think your point could be made just as effectively if you used greater discretion when referring to other schools. I’m sure a lot of good work goes on at Syracuse. Btw, that’s not particularly directed at you. It’s more of a comment on the “educational-institutions-as-trading-cards” dialog common on CC.
@merc81 as far as I have heard, Syracuse is a party school and mostly good at sports. I’m sure its academics are good, but there seems to be more research news, etc. coming from Stony Brook than Syracuse. But then again, rankings are an inaccurate, corrupt system from what I have read (sometimes I want to listen to them because they’re so popular/trusted/referred to, but my brain tells me not to). I wish Consumer Reports did college rankings - not recommended, recommended, or recommended with a circle… although no one would buy them if they were like that.
@ayprcwbjmy: Certainly it can be difficult to decipher the conflicting factors when choosing a college. You didn’t say why you posted your original question, but I hope the answers you have gotten thus far have provided you with what were looking for. In some ways, it sounds as if you already know the SUNYs quite well. If your impression of them is high, then it’s understandable that you would like to see them ranked more highly. As I hope I made clear, I personally regard them as fine, nationally competitive universities.
Post more specifically about your concerns if you are truly in a quandary.
The best flagships in this country were founded with the goal of providing the best education possible to the residents of that particular state. Often they were the first or among the first universities of that state or they were situated in areas without similar options. But when most of the flagships were founded, the northeast was aleady filled with excellent private schools-something that was not true for most of the country. While the flagships were built expressly to be the best, SUNY was founded with the explicit promise that it would not compete with the private schools. They were intended as utilitarian institutions that would provide education to those student who could not afford the private schools and who would have to go without a college education if not for SUNY. That utilitarian goal with the promise of not attracting students who would have attended a private school explains the aesthetics of some of the campuses along with the overall academic climate. (see the thread called Not elite and not a flagship but an opportunity for an education fo rmore information) At issue is not just the aesthetics but also the organizational structure, oversight, and funding mechanisms.
Someone obviously misunderstood. The quote attributed to Hoover’s presidential campaign was “a chicken in every pot and two cars in every garage” not a SUNY in every backyard. Yet there are over 60 of them! Consider that. 60 English Departments. 60 History Departments. Then there are the worthless redundancies, 60 Deans, 60 Associate Deans, 60 Assistant Deans, 60 Administative assistants to the Deans.
^ Still, The New York Times felt comfortable writing: “Four are ambitious university centers with a national reputation: Stony Brook, Buffalo, Binghamton and Albany.” (2010.)
When interpreting the rankings, also consider the shape of the distribution curve. By overall score, SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry (50) is closer to the University of Michigan (72) than Michigan is top the top-ranked University (100).
Nobody is pretending that Bing, UB, U-Albany or Stony Brook are anywhere close to Cal Berkeley, UCLA or UNC-Chapel Hill, but they do compare favorably to some well-known schools in the USNWR rankings (for what those are worth):
30 (Tie) Indiana University—Bloomington , Miami University (Ohio), **SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry**, University of Delaware, University of Massachusetts—Amherst
35 (Tie) Michigan State University, University of California—Santa Cruz, University of Vermont,
38 (Tie) **Binghamton University—SUNY**, Colorado School of Mines, **Stony Brook University—SUNY**, University of Alabama-Tuscaloosa, University of Colorado—Boulder
43 (Tie) Florida State University, North Carolina State University—Raleigh
45 (Tie) University of Missouri, University of Nebraska—Lincoln, University of New Hampshire
48 (Tie) Auburn University, **University at Buffalo—SUNY**
50 (Tie) Iowa State University, University of Kansas, University of Oklahoma, University of Oregon, University of Tennessee – Knoxville
55 (Tie) University of California—Riverside, University of South Carolina
57 Michigan Technological University
58 (Tie) Colorado State University, Temple University, University of Arizona
61 (Tie) Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey—Newark, **University at Albany—SUNY**
Some high-profile schools including Kentucky and Arkansas are further down the list. These schools are probably better known due to their athletic programs than their academics, but many people seem to equate sports stature with quality.
More important is the fact that some programs at the SUNY university centers are very well-regarded and comparable to those at both other public schools as well as pricier private colleges and universities. I would recommend any prospective in-state student who knows what they want to study to compare the best SUNY programs with other schools and evaluate their future prospects relative to the higher debt that may be required to attend other schools.
As a NYS taxpayer, I think the SUNY system needs a major overhaul, mostly due to the redundancies pointed out by @lostaccount
How many SUNY Podunks do we really need? Invest heavily in Bing, Buffalo, Stoney Brook, and maybe Albany; keep the specialized schools like Purchase, FIT, and others. I just can’t see any reason to have so many redundancies. It’s stupid. It’s as if the state has decided to spread mediocrity and use higher education as a jobs program rather than invest in excellence, but isn’t that the modus operandi of government agencies?
Not sure what you are proposing. Should we double the size of the university centers to run SUNY more efficiently? Or are all those students at the ‘SUNY Podunks’ not worth investing in? If you shut down some of those schools then we’ll have to expand the community colleges or build new ones unless you can get the state’s politicians to go along with the idea of restricting college only to the deserving.