Legacy status alone does not help. Legacy status with parents who donate a lot to the university and/or are very influential does. Again, although such legacies may not have exceptional academic credentials, they are still expected to maintain high standards.
No one is perfect. I also highly doubt that you were a fly on the wall at the time of their interview. Maybe they came off as pompous…
“That’s exactly why I asked the question… so people could help me understand how the university system works.”
@catlover200, top colleges look at a number of factors, both academic and personal. Test scores and GPA are only part of the equation. Test scores are not particularly indicative of success beyond a certain point, so a “perfect” score isn’t much different from an extremely high one. GPA outside of curricular rigor is meaningless. Letters or essays can make or break an applicant in some cases, and extracurricular accomplishments can carry tremendous weight.
https://www.iecaonline.com/PDF/IECA_CollegeTop12List.pdf
All of that is separate form “hooks” such as URM, legacy, recruited athlete, etc. In many cases, some of the brightest and most talented applicants won’t have “perfect” GPAs because they push themselves and/or focus their effort into particular areas; what they achieve by that effort may be more important to colleges than what they lose in terms of GPA or test scores. In some cases, people who achieve “perfect” GPA and scores obsess about those things and prioritize for them, rather than putting their effort into more meaningful pursuits. Ultimately, it’s up to the colleges to evaluate each applicant and decide what they value. That’s “how the university system works”.
I also definitely think a lot of students (and I’ll even extend this to people close to them like their own high school teachers and such) overestimate how good their essays sound to someone who doesn’t know them. I have a family friend who had a child applying to Brown this year. I didn’t really know her at all as she’s the daughter of my parents’ friends but they asked me to look over her essay and as a favor to them I did. EDIT: CC posters, do not ask me to read your essays. I don’t do that.
The essay was well written from a grammatical/organizational standpoint but frankly was a terrible college application essay. It was boring, trite, and sounded exactly like what the sterotypical college application essay sounds like. There was an attempt at a unifying theme but nothing about it grabbed me and despite not seeing her entire application, I doubt it added anything about her I couldn’t glean from somewhere else. I see many posters rate their own essays in results threads. I bet she would have given this one a 7/10 or higher. I suggested a major overhaul and gave some concrete suggestions about things I thought she should do to make them more captivating and really make an adcom go “Wow, this girl is amazing. We need her on campus.” They didn’t follow my advice because it was “too close to the admissions deadline to make such changes” (again, I bet everyone in their camp thought it was great). She was rejected and is instead going to a top 15 LAC.
You don’t get that wow factor from your SAT/GPA, your class rank, or even your ECs. As the MIT blog mentions, they rejected a kid who built a functioning nuclear reactor in his garage. http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways Those things show you’re smart and talented, but a lot of the applicant pool is smart and talented. The essays are what get you admitted. The other stuff is just what stops you from being rejected.
Totally correct. 100%.
And yep.
i do believe that the close to perfect test score is the ideal. The 2370-2400 or real 35 (not a 34.5) - 36. Fewer than 3 sittings. Plus an unweighted 3.91-3.99 GPA OUT OF 4.0 not 4.3 or some other BS (they got 1 or 2 A-s) with SAT 2s of at least 770. Excellent ECs showing passion and leadership and recommendations (genuine ones, not this kid is a robot). Finally good essays including good Why this college essays if asked or added on their own if not asked.
A friend’s sister was perfect in every way except even she admits after the fact that her essays were mediocre because she hates writing and was over confident. She got rejected from a bunch of places she should have walked into.
There are other intangibles. For some reason her school rarely gets anyone into top schools (same caliber of kids, .legacies, same test prep, same rigor and courses, I would LOVE an explanation). There is the occassional UPenn or Cornell or Vanderbilt but it is often a legacy or the valedictorian. A URM may get into a HYP but not the un hooked. The weird part is two neighborning school districts got multiple unhooked HYP two years in a row. The people that got in were not exceptional in any way (although they were top 5 in their large class) beyond having good stats.
She will most likely be Valedictorian of her #40 school. As a Chemistry and math double major.
I do not believe that Top 10/single digit acceptance colleges view a un hooked 3.89/34 the same as a un hooked 3.95/36. Sure they may take the first one if he is REALLY interesting (however that is defined) over the second one, but they really do prefer the second one. Despite what people posted in April on here, in real life I know way more 36/2400s that got into HYPS than I do 34/2290s.
I do believe that if a 4.0/2400 is rejected from all top 20 schools, there is problem on the application. Note if they are wait listed, it means something different, it means most likely they did not show enough interest and it was a Tufts Syndrome wait list (they thought they were being used as a safety). As opposed to the 34 who when wait listed needs to ask if this is a courtesy wait list because no one from the school was accepted or they are a legacy who should not be rejected in the first sitting.
I don’t think you understand how many of these “perfect kids” are out there.
A word on essays. Generally, this is the only way to show you are a real person. Thomas Merton is famous for saying “Pride makes us artificial and humility makes us real”.
Best to keep that in mind when writing a college application essay. Tip, no one wants to hear how smart you are.
@Pizzagirl Know 3 personally and read all sorts of stories online (like CC for example)
@SaphireNY Well the 3 really outstanding applicants I know attend stellar universities now, but not Ivys. One goes to Carnegie Mellon and the other 2 go to UCLA
@BatesParents2019 @iwannabe_Brown
Idk if this is an interesting essay, but one girl wrote about films. She analyzed these old directors and the technology put into films. Id say shes definitely not boring, like she didn’t write her essay on physics… she was truly interested in the technology put into movie making
Is this a cool topic?
@catlover2000 No its boring. It tells the adcom nothing about the person’s soul.
@BatesParents2019 the fact that you used the term “soul” makes me doubt whether or not you’re being sarcastic… but thanks for the response
@catlover2000 that is so weird because those were the two schools I just used in another response as example of people who were overconfident, and did not do ED last year. I picked them at random although I remember people on here mentioning those two (and UCB and Dartmouth).
I really do think that essays are overrated. I also find it amazing that colleges would put so much weight on the one facet of the application that has no outside monitoring. ACTs are taken in a public setting and ID is requested. Teachers grade students on their in class performance, ECs usually have to show some tangible results and volunteer hours are usually certified, yet I have heard of people being paid to write essays for others. Even Yale’s web site encourages you to show your essay to your teachers or family. Seems wrong somehow.
Plus humans read the essays. What I may like, you may hate and vice versa.
@catlover2000 I was totally sincere.
@SaphireNY Yah, really rich people hire others to read over and fix, or just complete write their college applications. I know essays show what you’re passionate about, but they’re pretty easy to cheat on. Standardized testing on the other hand is nearly impossible and can equally measure everyone’s abilities in a certain subject.
I agree with Bates, that sounds awful for the reason she mentioned. It says nothing about who this person is. It describes an interest but not what she did or how she contributed or it made her feel. Supposedly one guy wrote an amazing essay about pants. How they made him feel, why he wore certain ones (guessing here). Just heard about it, did not read it. I did nothing like that.
@SaphireNY well she wanted to major in computer science and graphic design or something so… I never read the essay, but she probably added some personal experiences or projects shes done. She probably also wrote about how it made her feel. I can’t be certain tho, because again, I never read it
How do you know they weren’t exceptional? Did you read their apps?
I think universities and colleges that are fortunate enough to have their choice of the brightest high schoolers want kind, thoughtful and interesting kids, and the often missed opportunity to reveal those qualities is in the essays.
Here are two examples of revealing essays:
This about buying used paint brushes:
http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/my_college_essay
And this (scroll down a few pages) about killing a squirrel: