<p>Concur that many Stanford Engineering students would prefer Stanford over HYP.</p>
<p>But, in addition to the cross-admits, don’t forget about the H rejects, but Stanford admits. Once stilted by a college or (significant other), it’s amazing how fast psychology takes over and we move on, and then ‘just love the one you’re with’. The real question to ask is during the cross-application process of those who applied to both: If you get into both, where would you prefer?</p>
<p>And, yes, there are many at S from California (and the west coast) who prefer a college closer to home, apply SCEA and are extremely happy if accepted in December. But, this is a shrinking group at S…</p>
<p>Sakky. Most of Michigan’s students are not from the east or west coasts. Most don’t want to attend schools hundreds of miles away from their homes. I just don’t get how you can be so sure that most students at U-M would want to attend HYPSM if they could get in. Like I said, it’s not like they’re from an area where the public university sucks.</p>
<p>After all, you said it yourself - many students, both OOS and, yes, in-state, choose UM as a safety, and for many of them, that is in fact the best school they do get admitted to, so they go. If they had been admitted elsewhere, they would have gone there. But they weren’t.</p>
<p>sakky, if that’s how you truly feel, then I guess you wouldn’t mind if all top schools just offered a “general education” undergraduate degree-perhaps similar to Columbia’s core curriculum, just made to span four years. Yet, for some funny reason, I doubt that many people at these top schools would be happy with such a change.</p>
<p>Let me put it to you this way. Northern California is one of the nicest locales in the country, and arguably the world, certainly far nicer than Ann Arbor (sorry, but it’s true). It is also an entire continent away from the Northeast. </p>
<p>And yet most Berkeley undergrads would rather be going to one of HYPSM. I think you would agree that Berkeley is not, as you put it, a “public university that sucks”.</p>
<p>I am referring to the absolute top students in this country who apply to Michigan from other areas as a safety. Why would they want to go a school hundreds or thousands of miles away from home if they can get into a comparable/better one closer by? The vast majority of Michigan residents don’t look at it as a safety school. It is their dream school since the time they thought about college. Some of them would prefer a HYPSM experience to be sure, but I’d not say the vast majority of them.</p>
<p>And the real answer anyone can give is no one knows the answer to that. You need to recognize that those who were admitted to Stanford and rejected from Harvard may have just “fit in” better at Stanford, not “fit in” at Harvard (which explains the decisions) and would have chosen Stanford over Harvard after attending both admit weekends and all that jazz. So really, it is presumptive to say many Stanford students would have chosen Harvard if given the choice.</p>
<p>To your specific question, you’re right, I wouldn’t really care, for like I said, majors are mostly irrelevant anyway. Most students don’t pursue as a career whatever they had majored in. </p>
<p>However, to your point regarding whether other students would be happy with such a change, let’s take that back to the context of engineering at Harvard and Yale. Such a tiny percentage of Harvard and Yale students actually choose to major in engineering anyway that whatever relative weaknesses may exist in their engineering programs hardly matter. I agree that if you know you want to major in engineering, then you should go to MIT or Stanford rather than Harvard or Yale. But, like I said, that number of engineers at Harvard and Yale is so small as to be inconsequential.</p>
<p>Is that an insult? Well I disagree with your assessment. Ann Arbor has oftentimes been considered a top ten city of it’s size to live in this country. Because it doesn’t fit with your likes of what an area should be, doesn’t mean it’s not desirable. Once again you’re talking generalities based on your bias’.</p>
<p>Oh, I’m quite sure that the top students in the state of Michigan would treat UM as a safety. {Gosh, where the heck is Alexandre when you need him?} </p>
<p>After all, the top students in California certainly treat Berkeley as a safety, and Berkeley has the added advantage in being in a wonderful location - frankly, better than the Northeast.</p>
<p>Ha! Is that the pot calling the kettle black? </p>
<p>Look, don’t get me wrong. I like Ann Arbor too. It’s a nice town - until around December or so. On the other hand, Northern California is nice throughout the entire year.</p>
<p>I said the vast majority of Michigan residents don’t look at Michigan as a safety school. Of course the very top students look at it as a safety. Then again the vast majority of Michigan students aren’t interested in HYPSM. See the correlation? Geez!</p>
<p>Uh, it’s hardly presumptuous in the least. After all, we have already established that H beats S for most actual cross-admits. There is no reason to believe that every student who Stanford admits but Harvard rejects all just happens to fit better - for I think we both know that admissions decisions often times defy rhyme or reason. Hence, there are surely quite a few students who got into Stanford but not Harvard but who would have chosen Harvard had they gotten in. </p>
<p>Look, I’m not saying this to overly insult Stanford, a school of which I am a major supporter. I am simply acknowledging the realities of the attraction of the Harvard brand name.</p>
<p>“Look, don’t get me wrong. I like Ann Arbor too. It’s a nice town - until around December or so. On the other hand, Northern California is nice throughout the entire year.”</p>
<p>Once again, some people like 4 seasons, along with a hot summer (admittedly cooler than normal this year, but hot as heck today).</p>
<p>“I am simply acknowledging the realities of the attraction of the Harvard brand name.”</p>
<p>Which even though it is weak in engineering gets mentioned over and over. See what I mean about being spoon-fed since birth? All joking aside, Harvard is indeed amazing.</p>
<p>Right - because for most of them, it wasn’t a safety. It was their match school, or even a reach. They didn’t do all that well in high school, and they feel lucky to have been admitted to UM. c</p>
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<p>And that’s where we disagree. This is particularly true for the students who didn’t do that well in high school and for which UM was a match or maybe even a reach: these are precisely the students of which HYPSM would be so desirable. </p>
<p>Let’s think of it this way. If I didn’t do that well in high school such that I barely got into UM, then somehow (magically) getting into HYPSM, especially Harvard, would be a coup of epic proportions. I may never have a chance to attend a school like that ever again. I would surely take it. After all, what’s the worst that can happen? If I don’t like it, I’ll just transfer back to UM. But at least I had the opportunity. </p>
<p>Nobody is denying that UM is a great school, for it surely is. But, you said it yourself, the top elite private schools have magnetic brand names that cause them to be viewed as once-in-a-lifetime experiences.</p>
<p>I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point. Just because actual cross-admits liked Harvard better doesn’t mean non-cross admits who were willing to reject every other school they got admitted to in order to choose Stanford would sway the same way, or even close to it. People who choose to go to Stanford, even if rejected by H, already have shown a level of commitment to the school which makes them as a group more committed than the cross admits who may in reality be choosing H vs Y and got admitted to Stanford also.</p>
<p>Which doesn’t matter to most people, as most people don’t want to be engineers. </p>
<p>Look, I wish that wasn’t true. I wish engineering was a more attractive major and a more attractive career. But the fact remains, unfortunately, that most people don’t want to be engineers.</p>
<p>Seems to me that you’re the one making the strong claim here: that of all of the students who are admitted to Stanford but not Harvard, all (or even most) of them would not have chosen Harvard had they had that choice. My claim is quite conservative by comparison.</p>