<p>
[quote]
I cannot imagine a school that is more selective, more demanding, and more unforgiving than Georgetown
[/quote]
</p>
<p>More selective - HYPSM and so on.
More demanding - Reed/Chicago/Swarthmore/etc.
More unforgiving - I don't really understand that one.</p>
<p>More selective - People who get into HYPSM often get rejected by Georgetown, I think there's more to selectivity than strict percentages, GU is also NOT common app.<br>
More demanding - I spend every waking hour during the week outside of class and eating in the library, along with many of my friends and compatriots in the SFS.<br>
More unforgiving - There's no grade inflation here unlike aforementioned HYPSM.</p>
<p>"More demanding - Reed/Chicago/Swarthmore/etc."</p>
<p>B freaking S</p>
<p>
[quote]
People who get into HYPSM often get rejected by Georgetown
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You are stating an exception. The norm is that it usually works the other way around - those that get into HYPSM will get into Georgetown, though SFS is an exception as it's very self-selective.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's no grade inflation here unlike aforementioned HYPSM.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Princeton has become somewhat notorious for its lack of grade inflation.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"More demanding - Reed/Chicago/Swarthmore/etc."
B freaking S
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Besides just disagreeing with me, do you have any evidence to suggest that these schools are as demanding, if not moreso than Georgetown? Remember, I didn't start this comparison: the poster above me said that he could not imagine a school that is more selective, demanding, or unforgiving than Georgetown. If we take that at face value, it means that Georgetown is the most selective, difficult university in the nation. That is the only argument I am refuting because it is false. </p>
<p>Regardless of which way you look at it (percentages, avg. incoming applicant stats, etc.) Gtown is very selective, but there are most certainly more selective schools. Anyone that wants to argue that fact can save their breath; it's pointless and you'll merely be a shining example of school pride gone wrong.</p>
<p>If you think Gtown is as hard as Swat/Reed/Chicago, that's fine - you have attended Gtown and perhaps you think it is that difficult. However, if you think it is moreso, and in fact the most difficult school in the nation, you have a lot of convincing to do as most will not agree.</p>
<p>Georgetown is rare among elite schools in demanding completion of a five course curriculum each semester. The norm is four courses and some schools grant diplomas with as few as 28 or 30 classes. Additionally, the School of Foreign Service requires completion of an oral language exam outside of the course requirements. What this means is that one could have a 4.0 in all 40 classes and still be denied a diploma if one fails this do or die language examination. I know of no school with anything that rigorous. </p>
<p>As a graduate of a top Ivy League business school who discussed his undergraduate curriculum with his peers, (who held degrees from all of the best universities in the world) Georgetown can well make a case for being the hardest and most demanding school around.</p>
<p>Well for what it's worth I'll leave Georgetown with at least 36 credits in Russian...and that does absolutely nothing to advance my degree. That's the SFS language requirement for you.</p>
<p>Two words: peer assessment.</p>
<p>On the other hand, maybe USNews doesn't like us because we have a really long fight song.</p>
<p>I think arguing about academic rigor as this sort of vague concept for hard you have to work to graduate and get "good" grades is a waste of time. For those who are unusually gifted, G'Town and any other school in the country, will be relatively easy. For those that got lucky w/ high SATs, alumni status, or being a minority and aren't as innately gifted as other students may struggle.
As for GU being "unique" because it demands 10 courses a year, a lot of schools do that. The norm at nearly all semester schools is 5 per year, but occasionally AP credit can help a student take a lighter load a semester or two. But for those trimester schools (NU and U of C, which are academic "peers" of GU), you end up taking 12 courses per year. The 4 courses a student takes moves faster than other schools because it covers 15 weeks of material in 10. This speed also creates a disproportionate amount of midterms/exams/papers/assignments etc.</p>
<p>I'm not arguing that the quarter system is harder or easier, but with 2 extra courses per year, it's at least on par. And to continue the debate is pointless. Regardless of what lets people sleep at night, the most talented, gifted, and qualified students usually go to HYPSM. Just because one kid got rejected at GU and accepted at Harvard or chose GU over Princeton doesn't make it a trend. And it certainly doesn't allow for people to make over-the-top statements. Yet it does seem to build self-confidence....go figure.</p>
<p>for "how hard you have to work"</p>
<p>
[quote]
but I cannot imagine a school that is more selective, more demanding, and more unforgiving than Georgetown.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why is everyone taking the poster so seriously? She is merely reflecting on her personal experiences and YES there will be a more demanding institution and YES HYPS might be more selective. But all this bicker is pointless. Her statement was definitely not an assertation and the truth is you cross a certain line where all the top tier institutions are all Effin demanding and all good at what they do. So you can make the argument either way... Harvard is better than Georgetown. Georgetown is better than Harvard.</p>
<p>Just to throw my 2 cents in...
College Rankings are just like GPA; its an over simplification of evaluation</p>
<p>
[quote]
Georgetown is rare among elite schools in demanding completion of a five course curriculum each semester. The norm is four courses and some schools grant diplomas with as few as 28 or 30 classes.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Really? I thought that's pretty standard. I thought Duke is one of the rarer ones that have regular load of 4 classes. I went to WashU for freshmen year, and I took 5 or 5.5 (including lab) there. What's the big deal? Oh yea, I went to NU and I took 4 PER QUARTER. I even took 5 in one of the quarters, all in engineering. If people in GWU think 5 is so unusually demanding, no wonder they <em>feel</em> theirs is more demanding than all others. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Additionally, the School of Foreign Service requires completion of an oral language exam outside of the course requirements. What this means is that one could have a 4.0 in all 40 classes and still be denied a diploma if one fails this do or die language examination. I know of no school with anything that rigorous.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh please, if you think that's such a big deal, the Europeans are gonna laugh out loud. What's the name of the school again? School of FOREIGN service. There's no other schools that ask for that because there's no other school of its kind.</p>
<p>I don't think we're really comparing SFS to schools in Europe here...Language learning is stressed much more in Europe, naturally, but it's also much more rigorous from elementary school on up. American universities would have a pretty hard time demanding what their Euro counterparts do in this regard.</p>
<p>And it's definitely not true that "there's no other schools of its kind" as the SFS. There's two others in the District of Columbia alone - the Elliott School of International Affairs at George Washington University and the School of International Service at American University. There's also a few other undergraduate schools that specialize in the area, like the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton.</p>
<p>It's funny to me that many of the posters who choose to blow the OP's statements out of proportion and attack Georgetown r gtown rejects.</p>
<p>Georgetown's SFS school has most leadership alumni--are you kidding me?</p>
<p>Check out these two links for some of the "lower" Ivies:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Pennsylvania_people%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Pennsylvania_people</a>
<a href="http://www.postconsumer.com/columbia-alumni/%5B/url%5D">http://www.postconsumer.com/columbia-alumni/</a></p>
<p>(and no, I didn't graduate from, nor attend an Ivy league school--nor did I ever apply to Georgetown)</p>
<p>Yes, Georgetown is a really good school, but let's try to control the exaggeration on this board, okay?</p>
<p>Calcruzer.....perhaps you should glance at the list of notable Georgetown Alum.</p>
<p>Calcruzer-I hope you have a fine time kidding the likes of Presidents Clinton and Arroyo, King Abdullah, Army Chief of Staff Casey, Supreme Commander Jones, Senator and Majority Whip Durbin, Solicitor General Clement, Secretary Gates, Secretary Haig, CIA Director Tenet, European Commission Chairman Barrosso etc. if you ever meet them. This list is wholly "at home" and "in the company of" any elite institution. Certainly, it does not deserve to be derided as a joke or "kidding."</p>
<p>Don't come on the Georgetown forum to diss Gtown, b/c you're going to get owned!</p>
<p>Who on that Georgetown list has done anything that will make the history books?</p>
<p>In my estimation, that would be Bill Clinton, John Barrymore, and John Dean. (if we aren't counting convicted felons, that is).</p>
<p>Now let's look at the Penn and Columbia lists and make a similar list:
Dwight Eisenhower
Franklin Roosevelt
Ezra Pound
I.M. Pei
Lou Gehrig
Benjamin Cardozo
William Douglas
Thomas Dewey
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Amelia Earhart
Warren Buffett
Benjamin Graham
Peter Lynch
Benjamin Franklin
Theordore Roosevelt
Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein
Alan Greenspan
Ruth Bader Ginsberg
George Macy
Walter Annenberg
Benjamin Spock
Sandy Koufax
James Cagney
Georgia O'Keeffe
(once again not counting convicted felons, or soon to be convicted ones like Skippy Libby)</p>
<p>You talk about "Arroyo, King Abdullah, Army Chief of Staff Casey, Supreme Commander Jones, Senator and Majority Whip Durbin, Solicitor General Clement, Secretary Gates, Secretary Haig, CIA Director Tenet, European Commission Chairman Barrosso. </p>
<p>Let's see "Haig is best known for his screwup when he claimed he was "in charge" as Secretary of Defense when someone shot at Reagan (like he thought the VP had no standing--or that he was the VP), Gates has been Sec of Defense for like 3 months and is running the most unpopular war ever, Casey--what has he ever done. European chairman Barrosso--ask 100 americans if they've ever heard of this guy and you could possibly get 1 "yes" at the most. I suppose Tenet is the best known--but that's only because his poor work at intelligence is being blamed by Bush, while he blames Bush and his people for making him the "fall guy" for going to war in Iraq. Dick Durbin--, Solicitor General Clement--do you think anybody would say that they've contributed anything dramatic at this time? Jones--I never even heard of this guy--has anybody on here?</p>
<p>I hope you have a better list than that--because all you are doing is showing how lackluster the list is. Oh, and let's not forget that list of ambassadors--most of whom got their appointments as the result of contributing money--not because of any skill on their part--with maybe one or two exceptions (such as Annenberg from Penn) to England.</p>
<p>P.S. I'm really not trying to "diss" Georgetown--I'm just trying to point out that claiming that they are the "top" school for leadership is far from realistic.</p>
<p>Fine ur not dissing Gtown, but ur trying discredit it... we love Gtown, so we say great things about it, but then there are ppl like you whose trying to lower our high spirits... every college has its list of famous/powerful alums... no one is saying Gtown is the best, it is just a great school...</p>
<p>Calcruzer, whether or not an alumnus of a school makes it into the history books is irrelevant. </p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that in the United States, as well as virtually every other country on the planet, the people with the real power are the government functionaries working in various ministries/departments that no one ever sees. A government can pass all the laws it wants or set whatever policy objectives it wants, but ultimately it's the bureaucrats who put those policies into place (or don't) in whatever manner they see fit. Perhaps you should watch "Yes, Minister" to get an idea of how this works. In the iron triangle of policy elites, business leaders, and elected politicians, Georgetown holds a pretty strong stake on every side and functions in a way quite similar to the ENA in France. Perhaps you should take a course in comparative politics. </p>
<p>Whether it's the Foreign Service or the National Security Agency, the fact of the matter is that Georgetown is by a great margin the largest feeder into positions in the federal government. Just because Georgetown has "only" produced one president, does not mean that this school doesn't hold tremendous sway over national and international politics. If you think otherwise, you're merely deluding yourself.</p>