<p>^^ We do not mind high-stakes testing; just make sure it means something real. </p>
<p>It is absolutely asinine for a kid with straight As in every course to have to take at test on the exact same material at the end of the year that determines if he passes to the next grade. That is ■■■■■■■■. The student already has straight As! It is this type of over-doing the standard testing that is silly to us. </p>
<p>Our kids blew away all the standardized tests they took. Why would they need to take another 14+ tests prior to that throughout high school to prove they could blow away the college entrance tests that actually matter? That would have been useless. They were better off doing other things. </p>
<p>It is irrelevant if no prep was required or if the test are easy because you still have to spend time getting there and taking them etc. During test days my kids had the entire day off. That worked for us.</p>
<p>May not work for you, but worked for us. As you can tell, I have not told any anyone else how to raise their kids - we are all free to do as we choose with our families. However, I do think our experience is relevant to point out that following the pack is not necessary to get to the same place. There is more than one road. </p>
<p>@awcntdb, I don’t completely understand why you went to so much trouble about these tests. It’s a few hours during school a few times per year. No stress or studying involved, just show up and do the test. In some cases, I found the results to be quite interesting. In others, I knew they would be uninformative, but it would surely take more of my time to try to get a kid out of them than the few hours of taking them. I’ve had a lot more important battles to fight. And there is the matter of citizenship.</p>
<p>As for the finals, your perspective is interesting. I believe that studying for a final is an important part of the learning process and also an essential skill to practice for college. Often kids think they know or understand something but it takes a second going over before they really get it. I was pretty dismayed when I learned that my daughter wouldn’t be taking any finals throughout high school, and I think it’s a real disservice to the kids. They do have AP exams although this year she’s skipping out on some since she’s worked hard for years and I don’t want to burden her last days of high school as a senior with too many AP exams that won’t help her college program. Also there is the matter of the $89 per test…</p>
<p>It seems like quite often the parents that push their kids the very hardest and go nuts are those who themselves didn’t go to an Ivy League/Similar school. Maybe they are trying to live vicariously through their kids. </p>
<p>@mathyone - OK, you miss the point. It was not just about the tests. It is about everything surrounding the structure of which the tests were a big part. </p>
<p>We are thrilled our kids had a different experience and were not like other kids. </p>
<p>Like the title of this thread, we avoided the stuff we viewed as crazy. We do not expect other people to necessarily understand or agree. Cool with us, as our kids got to the schools they wanted and thus what we did proved effective and useful for us. </p>
<p>“our kids got to the schools they wanted and thus what we did proved effective and useful for us.”</p>
<p>“what we did” was effective and useful for “us”? Not what your children did was effective and useful for your children, but what “we” did was effecive and useful for “us”.</p>
<p>@Mandalorian - Interesting point. I cannot speak for other parents, but we did go to Ivys and a super-elite LAC and never felt the need for our kids to emulate us. If they went fine. If they did not, fine too. We figured we would not like such pressure, so why put it on our kids.</p>
<p>If you went to a typical CEGEP, replace Ivies by med school (or, to a lesser extent, dental or pharm school) and then the “college race” picture in the OP becomes what I saw when I myself attended one.</p>
<p>@eastcoascraxy - Yes, we view education as a family affair that begins in, is nurtured in and ends in the home. We did not think we dropped our kids off and teachers and GCs that do not know us and what we think about education or our values then directs the education of our kids. </p>
<p>With education being central to us in the home, we and us are interchangeable. Kids have goal; parents help get them there. Kids have a request; parents help fulfill that request. Kids ask advice; parents give it. It is a we and us all over the place inside our house. Much less so now that one is out and the other is leaving. </p>
<p>We live out west, and the only pressure our sons had to attend big name schools came from the grandparents, on both sides. Grandparents wanted brag bumper stickers, put a lot of pressure on our sons. Ironic because the grandparents mostly know schools due to huge football programs – all are crazy about TV college football – and neither of our sons even played football! So stupid. Both sons ended up choosing small private schools that were just great fits for them, and in both cases, the grandparents were really disappointed in them. It’s sad. I can vividly remember my father saying with disdain, “Where? I’ve never even heard of that school.” </p>
<p>@LongRangePlan - My wife is from out West (the serious plains, high-plateau West) and she has a laid back, no pressure attitude even though she went to a high pressure school. </p>
<p>Thankfully, we both did not get suckered into the name and prestige thing, though we were in the thick of it. Even today, we do not have the names of our schools in our cars’ rearview windows. Will not put the kids’ schools there either. It would be one serious list, but just not us to do that.</p>
<p>" It is about everything surrounding the structure of which the tests were a big part." Didn’t follow this at all. We have two kinds of tests. Basic skills type tests, which the kids just walk in and take. And state-mandated end of course tests. Those get prepped for, in that teachers do review at the end of the course. There are some practice tests but a lot of the prep is optional or targeted to the weak students (some teachers give them review packets to do). My kids spent minimal time studying for a few of these and not any time for most.</p>
<p>Aww, come on, @awcntdb. You are quite proud of the fact that both you and your wife, and now your sons went/are going to a “serious list” of “prestige” schools – whether or not you have the names of said schools in your rearview mirrors. That’s why you keep “begrudgingly” mentioning it. And we’re happy for it. You have a way of doing education in your family, and others have other ways. You are trying to communicate that your way is better, even though you keep saying you’re only talking about what works for you. You seem to have a bit of a condescending attitude about others who might do things differently. It’s in the words you choose, and the language you use. You also talk about how you didn’t want your kids competing against other students to get into college. I don’t think kids generally think they’re competing against each other. They think of trying to get into the school they choose, which if it has an acceptance rate of less than 100%, means by definition, they are in competition. I am very happy for your sons, and the way you and your wife have chosen to raise them. But just as what you did worked, proving that what you did was right (I assume that’s what you mean), others who have gotten into high-stakes schools, and took a different approach could also be commended for doing what worked for them. Why do you seem to assume they did something less high-minded than what you did?</p>
<p>Yes. There are plenty of children who are brilliant in art, music, and writing. We need their talents. Moreover, to force them into a STEM box would be the same as trying to force a big, burly football player into ballet. Many, many very intelligent people do not have an aptitude for calculus and physics. Some with the aptitude do not have the desire and would be miserable in a STEM curriculum and career. I’m all for encouraging STEM, but we don’t need to push it beyond all else.</p>
<p>I don’t see what the OP lists as a problem. I do see a major problem with the following:
ALL parents think their kid must go to college, whether they are ready to or should
It is the college’s fault if a student fails
Professor’s should grade on effort and knowledge, not performance</p>
<p>I don’t care if people think Ivies are the only way to go. That’s maybe 10% at worst of the parents, and we know by the numbers only 1% of all parents have even a chance of becoming an Ivy parent. The 85% who want their children to go to college no matter their interests, money, or ability are the problem. I teach kids who are taking trigonometry in freshman year of college. Kids trying to get into Ivies are taking trigonometry in 10th grade. We have kids with C averages in high school, not college prep courses (no core sciences, no math past geometry), and we take their money. Then we don’t get why the freshman retention rate is 80% and the four-year graduation rate is 25%.</p>
<p>Then look at the freshman retention rate and graduation rate at Ivies.</p>
<p>As for parents complaining about grades, you either do it well (go to the Dean because he is your tennis partner and he can make things happen) or don’t do it at all. 99.999% of professors will laugh at kids who have their parents try to help their case, especially when it is obvious that mummy or daddy didn’t know that junior was not doing his homework. </p>
<p>If the top students are excused from the useless and boring final exams, wouldn’t the average drop significantly?</p>
<p>There are schools that don’t have finals, where students put together portfolios or projects. Why not go to a different type of school if you don’t like the rules of the public schools? (and some of those schools are free)</p>
<p>@rhandco You’ve touched on a whole 'nother area of “craziness” that a lot of parents here on CC don’t even see. </p>
<p>I thought it was interesting that when I asked D about the “No Excuses University” program, which was a central feature of the curriculum at her elementary school, she had a similar take on it: “they’re were telling us everybody should go to college, but that’s just leading some kids on.” </p>
<p>Here in WI/MN, the pressure really isn’t as great as on the coasts. Most above average and better students go to the big state schools their parents and grandparents went to like WI-Madison, UMN, UIA, UMich, etc. A lot of them have the test scores and stats for Ivies and similar but choose to stay local. A few over-acheivers go to UChicago, Northwestern or Notre Dame. Average kids and below go to branch campuses like UW-Eau Claire.</p>