<p>@awcntdb - Global warming is completely undeniable. It is a simple matter of temperature measurements. Perhaps what you are in disagreement with is the contention that it is man-made global warming. This is indeed debatable. If you think they are “cooking the books” (pun intended) about the temps themselves, then there is no point in even discussing it.</p>
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<p>I get that. I wasn’t as much being silly as trying to make a different point. As much as there may not be a big difference between the person who gets in and the person who is close to getting in (the “coin flip”), there is something, anything, which gave them an edge. If you take out all those people who had that “edge” as well as the “easy admits” and go with the next 2,000, then the class has a lot less of that “edge-stuff”.</p>
<p>It would be a different class if the easy admits and the “edge” advantage admits weren’t accepted.</p>
<p>That is not to say the next 2,000 couldn’t do the work (of course they can) or didn’t have their own advantages (they wouldn’t be the next 2,000 if they didn’t), it would just be a different class.</p>
<p>Now I recognize that (a ) this is a trivial discussion and (b ) that edge can be something very minor like “this person is from Wyoming and we need more people from Wyoming this year.”</p>
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<p>I thought we moved away from that and are now on “Global Climate Change”. That seems to cover all the bases.</p>
<p>Our HS college counselor, who is a good friend of mine, has great stories about parents and the way they act. </p>
<p>Like the mom who came in and told her that her daughter was going to UVA. There were no other choices. My friend smiled and said that was fine but make sure you have a backup or two in case UVA does not see the daughter’s talents. The daughter had a 920 on the CR and M portions of the SAT. Or there was the dad who came in fuming that our counselor did not tell his daughter to apply to the U. of Florida. They were residents of Florida living in VA. The daughter forgot to tell the counselor this. She cannot read minds - yet. </p>
<p>My older son had a friend whose dad told him it was Harvard or nothing. Harvard did not happen. He had to settle for UVA.</p>
<p>Have parents gone a little crazy? Yes. But sometimes it is because they just are not educated about the admissions process. They assume their kid will get into a top school because they have good grades and test scores. But there are a lot of others with the same grades/scores that have the same idea.</p>
<p>I think the students, at least the ones on the East Coast, have also become extremely focused on a selective few colleges. They get peer pressured into the fierce competition and name chasing. The influence, unfortunately, come from everywhere, not only the parents. My child paid little attention to colleges until his close friends (similar stat ones) started to ask where he would SCEA to so they can avoid applying to the same one … </p>
<p>@momreads, the converse of that the GCs at DDs assume that all of the students should apply to community college or the state directionals. Until DD came along…DD has really changed the game for low ses, inner city students at her school. We had a plan, and made it happen. </p>
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<p>This theme keeps reappearing … but I’m left wondering this. </p>
<p>Is it so different that a top student from New England may start with Harvard, Yale, and MIT while a top student in Texas starts with Texas, A&M, and Rice? Both are focused on the best regional schools and the schools that carry “weight” both among the local John-Q-Public and with the local employers. </p>
<p>Somehow the kid in the northeast and their parents are often described as prestige wh**** and out of control while pursuing the best schools in their region while those pursuing the best schools in their (other) regions are typically described in a much more positive way.</p>
<p>Is saying you’re a Texas grad in Texas really that different than saying your an Ivy grad in NEw England?</p>
<p>^Interesting point in terms of psychology. That may be how people think. However, the Texas high school student knows if he is in the top % of his class he WILL be admitted to UT and A&M.</p>
<p>With all the kids living in New England or the Northeast, it’s hard to make a sweeping generalization that all their noses are pointed at Ivies. I think looking at the mass that do flood the gates is only one end of the scope. Consider all the rest who aren’t tippy top in their high schools and the large number of private colleges. Or all the NY kids who want a SUNY. I also think some of the college ideas (beyond sheer prestige) are based on where a kid wants to be, post-grad. If you want to stay in the NE, why not go to college in the NE, make your contacts there? Same for all regions. </p>
<p>Plus, focusing on the NE or New England makes it seem those are the only crazy parents, while we know they exist in other parts of the country. </p>
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That’s what we did too. But that doesn’t mean our kids didn’t take the PSAT (one of them was a NMF), or didn’t take APs (those were some of their favorite courses), or didn’t take the Regents tests, or didn’t do a normal load of ECs. My older son did a couple of academic type ECs at school and spent huge, huge scarily huge amounts of time playing (and learning stuff) on the computer at home. Younger son had a similar schedule, but instead was in two orchestras. Both kids never seemed overworked or overscheduled to me. They both got into top universities - older son got into Harvard, though he chose to go somewhere else that was stronger in computer science.</p>
<p>I’m sure that some people attending Ivies did crazy things in high school and are burnt out by the time they get there. My kids did not and were not.</p>
<p>The crazy parents are absolutely everywhere, but the stories about the really crazy struggle to get the kids into the right preschool so they can go to the right private school seem, to me, to come mostly out of the east coast and NYC in particular. I know it goes on to some degree in my own big middle america city because my kids go to that school that’s for sure ( sarcasm) going to give our kids a leg up, but I wonder if there isn’t a tendency to subliminally generalize those NYC preschool news pieces to everyone on the east coast.</p>
<p>There is a certain irony that there is some speculation that an applicant from a Title 1 school might have a leg up in the name of economic diversity. </p>
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<p>Just to make sure that the future generations of members might not be confused by the above statement … the SAT Subjects are required for students who are sending in their SAT scores and one needs the ACT Writing to waive the SAT Subject tests. Yale will accept the ACT plus Writing in place of the Subject tests. Not everyone lives in an area that has become a mandatory ACT land. </p>
<p>Fwiw, please note that Yale still uses the SAT Subject Tests for placement and does not accept Score Choice.</p>
<p><a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/standardized-testing”>http://admissions.yale.edu/standardized-testing</a></p>
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<p>Being from Texas, I can assure you that there is a hige difference. For starters, HYPS are far from local and regional schools in terms of drawing interest for their applications. While the schools do indeed draw from their immediate area, they also have a tremendous worldwide recognition. In addition, are there many vals in the country who did not hear “Oh, my dear, you are a shoo-in for Harvard” and we might very well 30,000 of those every year! </p>
<p>In Texas, you have a comprehensive program that ensures that the top ranked students have their choice of schools via direct and automatic admissions – the rule called the 10 percent rule that was challenged recently. There is a large number of students who compete for those automatic slots (usually for UT or TAMU) despite being far from having the grades and scores for the national tippy-top schools. The ticket is to secure that direct admissions. </p>
<p>While there are top students who start the process by securing a “choice” safety, they also look beyond their province and look at most of the CC darlings. If the top students don’t do it, rest assured that there are plenty of crazy parents in the large urban areas of Texas. Also, the same top students are competing for the “schools within the schools” as the business, engineering, and other honors’ programs are head and shoulders above the general university. The specialty programs are not part of the automatic admissions, and the business school (McCombs) offers a general business school and a Business Honors Program that is ultra selective. </p>
<p>An additional difference is that the local state universities --just as it is the case in California, Michigan, and Wisconsin-- have a stellar reputation and are often great tickets for local employment upon graduation. I am not sure if that is the case in states such as New England and the rest of the NE. </p>
<p>@xiggi wrote: Just to make sure that the future generations of members might not be confused by the above statement … the SAT Subjects are required for students who are sending in their SAT scores and one needs the ACT Writing to waive the SAT Subject tests.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification Xiggi. My son did take the ACT with writing. </p>
<p>I’m always a bit skeptical of any “trend” stories that are primarily based on anecdotes. Is there really a trend of increased craziness? Or are we just more likely to see or hear craziness because of better communications?</p>
<p>I think some of the craziness we are talking about is more common among immigrant striver families, especially those coming from countries where success can often depend on a single high-stakes test (or on a series of such tests). This tends to create the (erroneous) idea that only a few U.S. colleges provide the golden ticket. This kind of attitude is not really new–it just moves from older immigrant groups to newer ones. It’s just “my son, the doctor” in a revised form–I guess, “my son, the engineer.”</p>
<p>^ Could not agree more with Hunt! </p>
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<p>Take out the word “immigrant” and I would agree with you.</p>
<p>As far as is there more? I doubt it. We are in the 24x7 news cycle with 400 news channels…everyone needs something “interesting” to say to get attention ;)</p>
<p>Dog bites man is now news.</p>
<p>While there may be some non-immigrant families in the same rat race, I think it’s much, much more common among immigrant families–at least, if we’re talking about the Harvard-or-bust, SAT-cram-course, Kumon every afternoon craziness. I think it’s a double whammy–immigrants tend to be education-focused strivers anyway, and when you couple that with the experience of high-stakes testing in the home country, you get this idea that Harvard is the same thing as the top university in the home country–and that you get there through hard work, studying, and testing.</p>
<p>There are other kinds of craziness–such as parents interfering with sports coaching–that are more broadly common.</p>
<p>I would partially agree with Hunt…about recent immigrants or non-immigrants…if you replace H with S and M…all you have to do is “follow the money”…remember the movie…“All the President’s Men”…</p>