<p>@lookingforward,</p>
<p>Could you please send a list of the top UC colleges that are non-holistic? MIT and Caltech and the only one that come to my mind.</p>
<p>Further, I know that many holistic colleges have excellent faculty and curriculum. Good education, bad admission practices. 
Faculty in many top colleges don’t like holistic approach either. </p>
<p>“My oldest D. is in the 9th grade, and I am very happy with her HS. No injustices. No hard feelings.”</p>
<p>OMG. She is only in 9th GRADE??? 
</p>
<p>You need to get off CC for the next 2 years and pay attention to HER.
Not rant on and on about a system that you CAN’T CHANGE.
Your anger will only make HER miserable during her entire HS career.
</p>
<p>Last time I looked, ALL colleges using the Common App agreed to holistic reviews.
I have suggested, for a long time, that you will find direct answers by researching. Not assuming or complaining or trying to prove how elites do it is wrong or talking to some guy about how they do it in Russia or Poland or guessing your D will be one of 5% admitted. I suggested looking at UC info and you quoted an unrelated blog… Why? What impression does all this create? Help thyself.</p>
<p>@californiaaa is simply articulating the point of view which is probably held by many of the parents coming from the high stakes testing countries. </p>
<p>“Faculty in many top colleges don’t like holistic approach either.” This is partially true. Some would rather have more capable students who spend more time studying. But some also feel that the singleminded high stakes testing educational system in some countries has created students who are very good at solving specific problems put in front of them but not so good at dealing with more open-ended questions, more uncertainties, and problems requiring more creativity.</p>
<p>“You need to get off CC for the next 2 years and pay attention to HER.”</p>
<p>Thank you. My D. is doing pretty fine. URM, STEM-advanced magnet school, nice GPA, no complains. Nice student body (very Asian, very intelligent, and I like it). </p>
<p>Yet, I still think that admission process to top colleges is unfair </p>
<p>@lookingforward
Honestly, you advied me “You can find, via google, how UCB and UCLA review a kid’s hardships.” I googled it. The very first link is the one that I re-posted. You may try yourself. Put “how UCB and UCLA review a kid’s hardships” and see the results. </p>
<p>Who was that parent, a few years ago who argued in this same general manner- was it something about her kid’s piano virtuosity? How American kids weren’t as good (because they had lives, was that it?) And no matter what was said, there was a comeback, off track? I think she got banned for inflammatory. </p>
<p>Indianparent?</p>
<p>ps. I found the direct info in seconds. If you believe the first, unrelated link you find, you will not do your D any service. That’s what doesn’t make sense, to me. Can you do the research? I believe so. So, why not? Google for the info, not for some quote from me. Big Hint: you want to know what UCB says. Not some mom.</p>
<p>@mathyone,</p>
<p>May be I am paranoid. If I don’t understand some process, if it doesn’t pass common sense smell, I feel really uncomfortable. </p>
<p>Yes, I am uncomfortable with college admission process. Yes, I don’t understand it. And I, naturally, suspect that it is biased and have some “back doors”. </p>
<p>@lookingforward,</p>
<p>I believe the link that is written in plain English. Also, it makes sense.</p>
<p>You are trying to convince me that colleges collect information about student’s pedigree, intensive info, but never use it? It doesn’t make sense. You are writing about the importance of “context”. What is the context, in terms of parent’s education? What does it tell about the kid? If two kids applied with the same GPA + SAT, but one has a mother who is a school drop out, and another has a mother that has Ph.D., which one would be admitted? Why? </p>
<p>If parent’s education is irrelevant, why colleges collect this data? </p>
<p>Interesting… As a college professor, I had a 42-year old student’s mother and father come to my office to protest their son’s failing grade in my business law course. This man’s parents were in their seventies! The student was failing because he did no reading so had a perfect ‘0’ average on weekly quizzes; he turned in a plagiarized paper; and he averaged 21% on the exams he had taken to the point of our “conference”. I was appalled. (Yes, he failed the course, having refused to withdraw.) </p>
<p>After I left work due to disability (MS), I began volunteer work at a local middle school. I tutor remedial math students in seventh grade. The average student starts with a fourth grade skill level, but some are as low as first grade (i.e., cannot count accurately). SOME parents ARE crazy. I watch as parents come in to the classroom, with no notice or scheduled appointment, to heap abuse on the teacher of this class for failing their child. Without fail, these parents have bought what the kid has told them without any skepticism at all, i.e., “She’s failing me because she doesn’t like me.” Or “I dunno why my grade is bad. I DO all my work. She just loses it.”</p>
<p>The teacher for whom I volunteer has a PhD in science, is nationally board certified in mathematics, and is qualified in special education, as well. She teaches a custom curriculum developed over 10 years with a track record of phenomenal success. (The students’ success was featured on the state’s Public Education Department website as a stellar program, etc.) For every missing assignment, a student has to fill out a “missing assignment slip” and explain why the assignment was not turned in. She KEEPS every one of these in students’ folders. She also keeps every tardy slip; all the notes they pass that get intercepted: etc. When the parent(s) of an allegedly persecuted perfect child come in – often using language (in front of 25 twelve-year-olds) that would make a longshoreman blush – she gives the parent(s) the student’s file to review, and suggests the parent schedule a meeting to discuss the problem. Guess how many parents have called and scheduled the requested meeting after reading the student file? NONE – the teacher has had to try to track the parent(s) down to get a discussion started, usually without success. Nearly all who do schedule are “no shows”.</p>
<p>I do think that there is more bad behavior now than there was a decade ago. People have lost the ability to communicate and to resolve issues - thank our technology and televisions for that. Also, the parents who react in this way are simply trying to handle situations for which they have no skills, since many of their own parents were absent, non-supportive, and/or lacked the skills themselves. </p>
<p>Communication and conflict resolution are learned skills, but no one seems to be teaching how to talk things out and reach for peace.</p>
<p>Stanford - amicus brief in support of affirmative action, Fisher v. Texas</p>
<p>As an element of an applicant’s background, race is one of the first considerations on applications to more than 480 universities who use the Common Application, including Stanford.</p>
<p>Dean of Admissions Richard Shaw stated that Stanford admission officers review an applicant’s background materials before their academic records. He said that the practice helps to better understand the students’ learning and living experience.</p>
<p>“We subscribe to the concept of affirmative action,” Shaw said. “We see the value of diversity well beyond this idea of admissions.”</p>
<p>@californiaaa, they are looking for potential. Raise identical twins in families of different income and educational opportunity. The advantaged kid will most likely score higher. The colleges are looking for those other kids who didn’t start off as well but appear to have good potential. They use as a measure how well those kids did in their particular environment, what obstacles they overcame. That’s the idea anyhow, though how well it’s implemented is up for debate. They may also be interested in educating future leaders and professionals who understand how the 47% live and aim to help them. Maybe they recognize there are too many doctors in wealthy areas and not enough willing to practice in rural Idaho. Take a kid from Idaho and maybe they will make a bigger difference than another plastic surgeon in L.A.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The point of view may also be related to the higher level of corruption in some of those countries, so that persons from such countries may be automatically suspicious of holistic or subjective admission practices that can more easily be used for corrupt purposes. The high stakes university entrance exam in such countries may be the least corrupt thing that they have encountered in such countries.</p>
<p>@mathyone,</p>
<p>I agree … but it is still unfair to compare achievement to potential.</p>
<p>Where else, in this life, do we hire people on potential, instead of actual skills? (yes, I know, but it is called age discrimination). :> </p>
<p>Off track again, cali. It doesn’t matter how easy it was to read sf mom’s blog. She is not an adcom at UC. </p>
<p>You are trying to convince me that colleges collect information about student’s pedigree, intensive info, but never use it? It doesn’t make sense.
Did I say that? Or:
They ask parents education to understand the education support the child received and will continue to. The context.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus
Corruption in US admission policies? It is called donors and legacies. And recommendation letters from trustees and politicians. Please tell me, how is it different from old-time corruption? </p>
<p>"The high stakes university entrance exam in such countries may be the least corrupt thing that they have encountered in such countries. "</p>
<p>Yes. Thank you.</p>
<p>So this thread has hopped all over the place- how they do things in other countries, some unfair questions, what some colleague thinks, the sorts of kids at the magnet and what magnets should be, some unfair questions, Canada, England, Russia, Poland, holistic, testing, cc credit- and now donors and legacies, trustees and politicians, corruption? I’ve forgotten some diversions, I’m sure. But, see a pattern? </p>
<p>Cali, you need to stop and think and realize, these colleges are not asking “us” to change them. Take some time to look at what the colleges say they like. That’s a better start. You really don’t know what goes on. But you can learn by looking at what the colleges have to say. The griping and mud slinging won’t get your or D where you need to be. Best wishes, but you (anyone) need to really want the accurate info, not just the venting or ranting or wishing it could be 100% what you think it should be. You can take some action to learn, from the right sources. That’s a choice. Use the time wisely.</p>
<p>@lookingforward,</p>
<p>Thank you for your kind wishes. It is very difficult to find out what colleges are looking for. That is the problem. </p>
<p>Recently, An African American applicant, first generation American, was accepted to all Ivys. Kids, with better GPA and SAT scores are getting routinely rejected by all Ivys. Since all applications are confidential, and adcoms decisions are confidential as well, I have no idea, “what colleges are looking for”. It’s a puzzle. </p>
<p>@lookingforward
This thread looks “crazy,” because admission process is crazy. If it would be straight-forward, it would be much easier. </p>