<p>^ I rest my case…</p>
<p>Just from the Cal and UCLA admission guide.</p>
<p>“UC Berkeley and UCLA (and to some degree, UCI and UCSD) are applying the “comprehensive review” towards an applicant. A comprehensive review is viewing the application overall. Instead of looking at strict GPA and SAT/ACT scores, they are looking at the applicant as a whole. Therefore, they will be looking at evidence of family, economic, personal or social obstacles. They will be looking if you took advantage of academic and extracurricular achievement despite the obstacles. UC Berkeley will tend to look at the applicant’s ability to “live and learn in an environment with limited academic opportunities.” This shows character and someone they would like to see contribute to their university.” </p>
<p>Further, to “holistic approach”</p>
<p>“If your parents lost their job, their house, were divorced, have low English proficiency, or have low-level experience with institutionalized education or a stressful immigration experience, don’t be embarrassed to address this in your personal essay. Being homeless, a victim of a crime, living in a foster home, commuting more an hour to school (by bus even), having a serious or chronic illness, or having a physical or learning disability are obstacles. You should not be ashamed to mention them and show how you persevered despite these significant obstacles. And UCs like Berkeley, look for that. Also note that your essays are confidential.”</p>
<p>Happy, stable family is definitely a minus for the admission application. How could I teach my child about “right and wrong” if they see, that families “with obstacles” are valued more? That normal family is plain and not interesting. … nice message to a teenager. Grrrrrr…</p>
<p>If my D., instead of taking AP classes, would get pregnant, she would, definitely, get a much better assay for college admission. Another nice massage a teenager. </p>
<p>BTW, pregnant teenager means,</p>
<p>1) Interesting life story for adcom
2) No financial issues (automatically qualifies for FAFSA). No need for scholarships.
3) College provides excellent daycare for students. Free.
4) Babies are sweet.
5) it is easier to impress adcoms with a baby than with the number of AP classes. You can even send them a picture. </p>
<p>Holistic approach in action. </p>
<p>@californiaaa, how would you propose to make college admission objective? I’ll jump ahead and assume you are going to say something like that there should be some standardized exams of several hours length in each major subject, and that students would be admitted solely on basis of their scores. </p>
<p>But how do you make this objective? Will grades from all high schools be treated equally, no matter the quality of the student body or the grade inflation? Isn’t that holistic if you start making adjustments for the quality of the school or the amount of grade inflation? </p>
<p>Will all recommendations be eliminated? How will you learn about things that relate to achievement but aren’t measured on a test–how prepared is the kid in class, how much do they contribute to class discussions or student projects, how much initiative and creativity do they show, etc.</p>
<p>Will the schools care about intended major, or will math majors have to have writing scores as good as English majors? How do you handle kids who want to major in fine arts, will they have to meet the same academic requirements as math majors? Will they also have to submit portfolios or auditions? (Currently many of them do). How can it be fair and objective if they have to and the math majors don’t? If you set different requirements for different majors, what about the kids who want to major in subjects not even offered in high school or not evaluated on your tests? Philosophy? Engineering? Nursing?</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s so easy to be “objective” about admissions.</p>
<p>Head Smack. Wanna give the link?</p>
<p>What I find is those quotes are from a mom’s blog. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Which schools? It appears that the California public universities all have the policy that students cannot get double credit by having AP credit and taking the overlapping college course.</p>
<p>Soviet Union example. (my colleague told me about it)</p>
<p>Each college makes it’s own list of entrance exams, for each major. It’s that simple. College faculty knows best, what kind of students they are looking for. They set a combination of tests that may be helpful.</p>
<p>For example,
Nursing? Biology, Chemistry, Math (algebra 2 level), Physics (simple), English (simple), Spanish (elementary)
Philosophy? English (advanced), History (advanced) Writing assay (advanced)
Engineering? Math (advanced), Geometry, Physics (advanced), Computer science, English (simple)
Art? English (simple), History (simple) Portfolio presentation (double blind, admission officer doesn’t know student’s name or educational background) .</p>
<p>“how prepared is the kid in class, how much do they contribute to class discussions or student projects, how much initiative and creativity do they show, etc.” too subjective. Recommendation letters reflect more on the teacher than on the kid. </p>
<p>We need a dislike button.<br>
As the kids say: don’t feed the ■■■■■.</p>
<p>^ Dislike.</p>
<p>■■■■■ is an overused word.
It should be about someone who posts only to get a rise out of people (and when they do, they may change their viewpoint several time, just to ensnare more people).</p>
<p>Someone who believes in something strongly and consistently posts supporting that,…is…someone you may disagree with, but not a ■■■■■.</p>
<p>Neither of my s’s went to a UC school, UCBalumnus. They went to privates.</p>
<p>I believe that is what she is doing, Fluffy. I suggest looking at the UC sites and we get some blog baloney? Pregnant teenager? </p>
<p>@californiaaa, when you use a system like that, what you get is students who are very good at taking tests, but not necessarily so good at initiative, creativity, etc. And when the time comes either to use all that knowledge in a career or to engage in research to push the frontier forward, what may be more important than always the highest test scores, are things like initiative and creativity. At the end of the educational process, you want more than people who want to know if this is going to be on the test. And that is why, after you’ve taken the true standouts, it may make more sense to look at other factors when choosing among applicants whose scores are more comparable to one another.</p>
<p>Awcntb: The issue I think a lot of posters have is that way back at the beginning of the thread, you presented your family as an exemplary antidote to college admissions craziness, ascribing a particular value to your choice. While you acknowledged that other people might have other priorities, the tenor of your posts made it fairly clear that you thought you were doing something that had relatively wide applicability and which should be emulated by many other families.</p>
<p>What we’re all saying is that your decisions, at least as regards the PSAT and AP tests, are so highly idiosyncratic that they really don’t demonstrate anything meaningful except for the fact that you made a choice- possibly correct for you, possibly misguided - that wound up working out. The problem with your ideas about PSAT and AP tests is that at the time that you take them (with the exception of senior year APs), you don’t actually know where you are going to college anyway. There are plenty of schools that don’t offer merit and give no credit for APs, or that allow other ways of demonstrating various competencies. But there are also any number schools in which there might be a variety of benefits to taking them even for someone who doesn’t want to graduate early.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, in my undergrad, a certain score on certain AP science exams allowed you to place out of the lab science requirement (you still had to take a science course; it just didn’t have to have a lab component). If you’re a humanities kid who feels he or she got a pretty solid science foundation in high school and doesn’t feel the need to use a Bunsen Burner ever again, that’s an attractive option. If you’re a non-math major who aced AP calc and has limited time for but some interest in taking college math, you may want to take the risk of getting a lower grade in multivariable than spending your time getting a firmer foundation in something you already have reasonable exposure to and don’t really need perfect mastery of. Then, even if you have no interest in graduating early, sometimes a semester off might become an attractive option - I knew someone who cashed in her AP credits when she got the opportunity to do high-level campaign work during an election year, something more important for her chosen career than getting an extra semester of courses. </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean it makes sense for every student to take every AP test. But a blanket policy of not sitting for AP tests seems to limit your options needlessly. It happened to work out in your case, and probably would in many, but if you can afford the 90 bucks (which, if you can totally dismiss the idea of merit money as an important factor, I’m assuming you can), a few hours on a school day taking an exam doesn’t seem too much of a price to pay for keeping those options open.</p>
<p>Oy vey…</p>
<p>californiaaa,
We KNOW you are upset. But CONTINUING to rant and rave over a system that you think is biased or did your D an injustice will NOT change a thing. For HER. Or for YOU. You cant change the past. You need to let it go so your D can too.
Continuing to be so ANGRY will make it HARDER for your D to accept, let alone become enthusiastic, about where she decides to go to college .
Give it up …
%-( </p>
<p>@lookingforward and fluffy2017</p>
<p>I wish you would provide a better rebuttal than just calling me a ■■■■■. I am very consistent in my position. I don’t like holistic approach, and I value objective merit based admission. </p>
<p>@ucbalumnus,</p>
<p>There is a bigger puzzle with CA education. Berkeley would accept community college credits, but our HS doesn’t. Does it make sense? My D. can take a community college class that would be accepted for credit by any UC, but our HS won’t accept it for HS graduation 
Makes sense? </p>
<p>If you do not like holistic, look at other colleges. In this case, consistent does not mean informed. I believe you are kidding with us. </p>
<p>@mathyone,</p>
<p>It all depends on the test. You don’t need to give students a dumb multi-choice. </p>
<p>For example, in math you could give kids a combination of “standard” equations and just one Olympiad level question. You don’t even have to look for the “right answer”, but accept an attempt to find math reasoning. </p>
<p>MAth Olympiads are very good in identifying “creative kids”. Yet, they are very objective. Just as an example … </p>
<p>@menloparkmom </p>
<p>Thank you for your kind words. I am not bitter, at all. My oldest D. is in the 9th grade, and I am very happy with her HS. No injustices. No hard feelings. </p>
<p>Further, I am pretty sure that, unless something unexpected happens, my D. has a good chance of being admitted. </p>