<p>Right, GFG. Some of this and some of that. Traditional good parenting. Not thinking one can “buy” their way in via some recipe. Nor thinking a 14-17 year old will figure it out on his on. Three Bears- not too mmuch, not too little, just right. My mother used to say, if parents didn’t expose their kids to new ideas or increasing standards, we’d all still be eating pablum and gnawing on our crib bars. </p>
<p>Maybe it is the erosion of the middle ground. </p>
<p>I expect my kids to do well in school and to take the most challenging classes that interest them (and saying “I am not interested in math” is not a reason not to take math!). I expect them to fulfill their obligations, like to stay on the team until the end of the season, or to show up at club meetings until the year is over, even if they have moved on. I expect them to be respectful of other people—even to be kind and considerate. I think most of us would agree on these principles. We can’t imagine the other end of the spectrum, the parent who just lets the kid do whatever he wants.</p>
<p>But I don’t email a teacher and argue for my kid to get a better grade. He can advocate for himself. If there were a serious, unusual situation, I would get involved, but that hasn’t been necessary over two kids and seven years of high school. </p>
<p>I do see more parents out there on the extreme end, parents who do email teachers and want to discuss grades, to ask for extra credit. I see parents who don’t let/make their kids take challenging courses in order to protect GPAs. There is too much micro managing of kids’ lives and choices. I find myself telling parent friends they ought to back off and let their kids fail now and then. </p>
<p>My parents, who were academics, never asked about my homework and left that my responsibility. They didn’t comment on B’s (but my few C’s in math did get their attention). They left picking a college entirely up to me. I had a great experience at a SLAC, and my parents never exerted any pressure to major in any particular subject. When I goofed off after college traveling the world and working weird jobs, they rolled their eyes but didn’t scold or sermonize. I eventually got into fine graduate programs and am enjoying a fulfilling career. I know that “times have changed” but I hope to be the same type of parent when my kids are older. If this is an extreme, so be it.</p>
<p>“Honestly, if my kid performed the way some of their kids did today, I would have been angry and upset. Nope, “it’s all good.””</p>
<p>At a sporting event? Who cares how they perform, as long as they enjoy it and get some exercise (and perhaps camaraderie depending on the sport).</p>
<p>In my opinion, being a good teammate means you have enough respect for your coach and teammates to put forth a decent effort relative to your ability, and it means you don’t jeopardize your team’s result by deliberate rule-breaking or insubordination. There is a girl on D’s team who almost got her relay team DQed at a previous meet (coach had to beg the officials for mercy) for a rule infraction related to wearing body jewelry, and decided to keep wearing her belly ring to meets anyway (and it’s past the time frame where it must be kept in or the hole will close. Even so, then they let you cover it with bandages, which she didn’t do). That necessitated her having to slow down several times today during a 400 m. sprint relay leg to pull down and tuck in her singlet to keep the ring from showing. Two other girls were unhappy with their relay assignments and decided to just run slow in rebellion, thereby undermining the efforts of the other members of their relay team. </p>
<p>@snarlatron - But, you were doing just fine. I see a clear qualitative difference here. @TheGFG is talking about serious parental apathy. Taking your example, the parents GFG is talking about would not even comment about a C. </p>
<p>They do not consider themselves apathetic, but what it would take to get an active response from them would be serious danger or illegal activity, as opposed to stuff like getting C grades, avoiding hard work or challenge, immature or irresponsible behavior, or failure to give a good effort in their endeavors.</p>
<p>^^ I meant you consider them apathetic. I get that they see themselves on the forefront of parenting, but serious danger or illegal activity is a very, very high bar required to get a rise. Leaves not much else to parent about, which I figure is your point; they are not doing much parenting.</p>
<p>Yes, that’s right.</p>
<p>I think alot of kids are too spoiled by their parents. All these “Tiger Moms” or whatever you call it, or Tiger dads too. I remember I was at USC for a transfer fair, and a bunch of students were in a room listening to the admissions counselor lecture the students on how to get in etc. Me and other kids my age 19-21, were taking notes, and listening etc. But right below me, couldn’t help by notice this one girl with her dad, and her dad had all of her baggage, and was literally taking the notes for her, and getting the info, while the girl just sat next to her dad with her arms crossed. And I was thinking in my head, that this girl is going to be my future competition in the workforce? Haha. I applied to colleges on my own, filled out all my paper work, went to a couple schools myself, all by myself. I thought that’s what every kid was suppose to do, like basic stuff, as basic as wiping your own butt. But I guess there is alot of spoiled people out there. You shouldn’t be putting more effort into your kids education than what your kid is willing to do their selves.</p>
<p>I think the Tiger Parent phenomena is over rated. Of course there are some - and they are highly noticeable.
But as you pointed out, at a competitive college, you noticed one person out of an entire room of a “bunch of students” to .
Secondly, you are somewhat judgmental and jumping to conclusions. Were her arms folded because she just was in a fight with her dad about an issue at home that had nothing to do with college? Was she enthusiastic about going to the college and ready to take notes when all of a sudden she noticed her ex-boyfriend, Jake, canoodling with a co-ed? You don’t know.</p>
<p>There are a lot of spoiled people, but there are also a lot of people who jump to conclusions.</p>
<p>TheGFG,
In communist China, people don’t call it ‘craziness,’ instead, ‘Natural selection, survival of the fittest.’ Plus, students/parents’ mentalities are also deeply rooted in a long tradition of studying hard (really hard!!) for passing ‘Imperial exam’ in order to obtain decent social economic status. That type of social setting is indeed harsh, resulting that Asian students naturally, more easily adapt to competitions. However the situation in my kid’s high school (population dominated by Asian students) is, while Asian kids apparently are strong in academics, sports and performing arts awards mostly go to Caucasian and African American students. </p>
<p>“my opinion, being a good teammate means you have enough respect for your coach and teammates to put forth a decent effort relative to your ability, and it means you don’t jeopardize your team’s result by deliberate rule-breaking or insubordination.”</p>
<p>Oh, ok, I agree. I had read your post as saying you’d be disappointed in your kid if he hadn’t turned in a good athletic performance, but I see you’re talking about something else - deliberate insubordination, breaking rules, not putting forth effort. I’m glad to know that you wouldn’t be disappointed in your kid if he finished last in the track meet or didn’t win the tennis match. </p>
<p>Well, I would also be disappointed if my child did not give her best effort and therefore performed poorly. Given I know about what her “best” is in her sport, I wouldn’t like to see a major deviation from that without a good reason. If her best means she finishes last, that’s not a problem. If she is lackadaisical, or makes a glaring newbie mistake she shouldn’t make with her level of experience, I wouldn’t exclaim, “Good job!” like some parents do no matter what.</p>
<p>The standard in our house is that whatever you do, you do to the best of your ability. Mom and dad don’t specify what the kids should do EC-wise; they get to pick their activities. However they need to demonstrate appropriate commitment to those EC’s. If they want to play an instrument in the band, they need to practice their music, etc… Note I am not talking about a casual hobby, which doesn’t necessarily need intense dedication. However, if a student is going to spend several hours a day on an involvement, then s/he should do it with dedication. If not, then s/he needs to choose something else s/he is willing to be dedicated to. That standard, however, would be considered extreme by many parents. They’d say, “They’re just kids! They should just be having fun!” As if having fun and doing something well are mutually exclusive…</p>
<p>I agree with fluffy2017 (and what TheGFG posted while I was writing this). Thinking about this thread, one question that has come into my head is just how effective “crazy parenting” is in the first place? Can “tiger parents” mold an average bright kid into a math whiz capable of competing with students who have real aptitude and passion for the subject? Can a dance mom turn an ok ballerina into someone who will actually have a chance at a Juilliard audition? Will screaming at your kid from the sidelines create a D1 athlete? Will bribing a child to study for standardized tests lead to success in a highly competitive university environment?</p>
<p>Based on my own experience and observation, I’ve come to the conclusion that pushiness doesn’t work in the long run. Creating a home environment where hard work and excellence are valued and instilling those values from an early age, however…that works. </p>
<p>When it comes to sports, which I think are fundamentally not all that important - yes, I think that’s excessive. One of my kids played a varsity sport (team sport), and all I cared was that she was having fun and enjoyed herself and got some fresh air and exercise. I watched her performances in order to support her, but since I don’t play that sport, how could I possibly evaluate whether she was “giving it her all”? Don’t get me wrong, it’s important to try, but ugh to the idea that I should be “disappointed” in her performance. In this case, it WAS about her being happy and enjoying an activity, not about becoming number one. </p>
<p>I have taken up running in the past few years. I have run 8 5ks in the past 2 years, and am signed up for a few more. I’m kind of painfully slow as the Diet and Exercise thread will attest :-). But so what? I’m doing it, it’s good for me, and I’ve learned about myself through pushing my limits back. I’m glad the people on my metaphorical sidelines don’t feel the need to tell me I need to do my “very best at all times.” Indeed, a lot of therapy has gone into accepting that there are times when doing something at your very best and giving it your all is warranted - and times when it’s fine just to do what you can that day.</p>
<p>Seriously, how do you evaluate someone else’s best effort in sports? I get paying attention and following the rules and all that. But I can’t help feeling that the people who are finishing the 5ks in 20 mins probably think I’m not “giving in my best effort” and they have no clue how much of a victory it is for me to even be out there and finish. </p>
<p>I’m grateful for the yoga classes I take, in which we are encouraged to honor our bodies where we are at - if another chatarunga isn’t in the cards today, so be it. Paradoxically, I “perform” better and push myself harder precisely because there ISN’T that pressure to “give it your all! Now!” accompanied by the screaming that typically goes on at athletic events and which turns me far, far away. </p>
<p>Logic dictates that if there are above average performers then there must be average and below average performers whether it be academically or athletically. What are parents of average and below average children supposed to do? Disown them? It’s easy to say that kids are spoiled or doing less than their best but at the end of the day those kids might live happy lives while the overachievers are in counseling twice a week.</p>
<p>I think having two kids who are so diametrically opposite of one another has shown me just how ineffective trying to mold them into something they aren’t would have been. At some point, it’s up to them. </p>
<p>D is tall and athletic, but she really does not like sports. Based on early promise and family experience, she would have had a shot at being a very good volleyball player. But her heart wasn’t in it…so she dances instead, which she enjoys and is good at but doesn’t have the build for. </p>
<p>
Agree with this. And the flip side too. Parents who overly coddle their kids and don’t allow their kids to learn independent living skills are not doing them any favors. Sure we don’t like to see them fail, but not letting them learn to problem solve is just postponing problems til later.</p>