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<p>I don’t think it’s fair, though, to assume that overachievers are like that because their parents pushed them to be. Some kids are naturally competitive, high-achieving, Type-A personalities. Those are the kids who will thrive at a super-competitive university. And if one of my kids fit that mold (neither does), I wouldn’t want to hold them back, either. </p>
<p>PG, my kids played sports. One had the eye of the tiger and was super talented the other just did it because he liked it. I expected them both to give their all and to be good sports. I don’t expect either of them to go pro or even play in college (one might). </p>
<p>I would have been disappointed if they had thrown a race or game. I would follow up on the performance and ask what happened. They would have received a stern talking to if either had cheated or shown poor sportsmanship. (And I would hope the coach would get onto them, too.) And they must go to all practices and games once committed to the sport.</p>
<p>It is a relative thing. Ultimately both kids are competing against themselves just like you are. My happy warrior wanted to run/swim faster each time, but had no illusions of being a district qualifier. My fierce warrior did qualify for higher levels of competition and so that was his measuring stick. </p>
<p>I can tell when my own child has given her best performance and when she’s just taking up space on the field. Even when she’s not trying she’s better than most of the kids on the field because she’s a better athlete, but it’s obvious when she’s not trying - her stick isn’t ready for the pass, she’s walking instead of running, she’s making mental errors.</p>
<p>It’s easy for me to see this in my own child, but I’ve watched enough games to see it in the other players too. It’s very easy to see it when they don’t show up at all. A lot of her teammates miss practice for work or other reasons, and some have missed games because they’ve scheduled something else (a try out for another team, a school visit, a vacation), so yes, I judge that these players aren’t giving their all to our team. This is different than not being able to make a play, or missing a shot, or not running faster because the player doesn’t have the skill. That I don’t judge.</p>
<p>I will add that the performance related stuff I leave to the coach. The attitude stuff I do feel is in my purview. </p>
<p>Let’s not forget that this time in our kids’ lives – the move away from family physically and emotionally – brings up a lot of stuff for parents. Most parents we know just want their kids to find a college that allows them to thrive, and are looking for balance in their relationship with their emerging adult children when they go off. Letting go can comes from anxiety about the future, the uncertain economic times, and our sense of loss. We have to fight against the urge to make everything okay because our kids need to advocate for themselves and learn by struggle and failure in order to grow into the independent people we hoped they’d be - right?</p>
<p>TheGFG you talked about the parents laughing it off when their kids were clearly blowing it off, not following rules etc - and I agree that’s not good. </p>
<p>So, let’s say your kid doesn’t turn in (in your eyes) the performance you believe he’s capable of. Do you communicate to the other parents “Boy, I sure am disappointed in Billy, I know he can do better”? What if anything do you say to them? </p>
<p>“Even when she’s not trying she’s better than most of the kids on the field because she’s a better athlete, but it’s obvious when she’s not trying - her stick isn’t ready for the pass, she’s walking instead of running, she’s making mental errors.”</p>
<p>I guess my q is this - so let her suffer the natural consequence of this - she won’t score, she won’t be picked for first string, etc. So maybe those things will disappoint her and she’ll turn it around if she wants to win that badly. But when I hear the parent is disappointed, it makes me think the parent is invested in the kid being first string or whatever, which raises all kinds of red flags for me. I want my kids to succeed in things that they find interesting and compelling, not in things I wish they’d find interesting and compelling. And I’ve been around enough families that were wrapped up in appropriately in kids’ athletic performances it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. </p>
<p>Oh jeez, c’mon. Is there a single parent IRL or even on this board who gives EVERYTHING 100%? None of you “phone it in” at work on days where you are preoccupied with a parent who just broke a hip and you’re spending three hours of the work day managing the social worker and the home health attendant? None of you claim a conflict for an organization you volunteer for on nights when you’ve had a stressful day at work and you just want to go home and have your kids heat you up a bowl of soup and stare at a rerun of Friends? None of you have turned down a promotion at work because at age 50 you just feel too wiped out from parenting teenagers and staying on top of the housework and managing whatever else is going on in your lives?</p>
<p>I’m calling the BS police on this. We all let it slide sometimes- that’s human nature and that’s life. It is not a moral failing to have a lazy day or week or moment, and it’s not reflective of poor parenting if you are able to laugh it off when your kid is behaving like a normal human being. I can’t believe that folks who demand 100% of their kids on team sports or whatever, don’t themselves have days where the to-do list doesn’t get done, or when they avoid the boss at work because they are a few hours late with last month’s quarterly analysis.</p>
<p>I have said to the other parents I’m sitting around that “D sure doesn’t have it today.” “Or I can see she’s frustrated today.” We’ve all been together for years, we do know how to evaluate a game. We talk about the team, as a whole, not adjusting to the way the refs are calling the game (there are big differences in the refs and the better teams will adjust, check more or less, anticipate whistles) and I’m talking about my child too. I do not tell my daughter that it was a ‘great game’ if it wasn’t a great game. When I say it, she knows I mean it. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t say I’m disappointed in her play to other parents, but it might seem that way if I say ‘that wasn’t D’s best game today.’ Like @Lizardly, I’m more concerned about her attitude than the number of goals, and I can see both from the stands.</p>
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<p>Actually, I am pretty sure that it doesn’t even work in the medium term and in many cases probably not the short term.</p>
<p>Since people are also talking about sports performance, think of the “Tiger Coach” - the stereotype of the hard charging, maybe overly vocal and possibly verbally abusive coach. Does that approach create a better performance? Maybe if can from an adrenaline surge from fear. But does it create a better athlete? I seriously doubt it. </p>
<p>The “pushiness” that can work is encouraging the child to try a lot of different experiences: piano, programming, soccer, debate, until something really catches their interest. </p>
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<p>Yes! Thank you.</p>
<p>I find it amazing that many parents here don’t seem to get that. The lines about “let kids be kids” and “academic robots” and “you can still get a good job if you go to some local U”. Our family knows kids who are far, far more driven than their parents and have siblings who are not at all like that.</p>
<p>We do have a lot of parents of kids on the team who blame the other kids, blame the coaches, blame the refs. I don’t want to be that parent. I don’t go on and on about how horribly my child played, but I’m not going to make excuses or blame others when my daughter didn’t play her best. I will say “D should have made that shot” or “She’s really slow getting back.” I do have a different standard because my daughter plays at a high level than the others. There is one parent who thinks her daughter should start every game but she really is awful. I say nothing, but it’s hard when they are criticizing the coach.</p>
<p>@KnowsyMoms stated, “We have to fight against the urge to make everything okay because our kids need to advocate for themselves and learn by struggle and failure in order to grow into the independent people we hoped they’d be - right?”</p>
<p>Excellent point. However, there is a middle ground between advocating and standing by and watching and hoping experience teaches in time via struggles and failures. </p>
<p>I am also not convinced struggles and failures automatically lead to development of a positive independent person. They may lead to independence from the parent, but the result could be dependence on something else not good.</p>
<p>If I am reading too much into your statement, then please correct. </p>
<p>The issue here is not all struggles are equivalent and not all failures are equivalent. Therefore, the one caveat is I believe parents should step in when they know a seemingly innocuous looking decision(s) that really has long-term negative consequences is being taken by their kids. Kids do not have the benefit of certain experiences, so if I see such a decision being taken, I sit them down and explain the lay of the land and what serious negatives can happen later because of said decision; and if necessary, I just outright stop the bad decision if they do not get it. </p>
<p>One of my goals, as a parent, is also to teach. And teaching means I impart my experience and knowledge to save them from certain troubles, which others unfortunately have to experience; troubles better learned about ahead of time, rather than having to extricate from the damage costing time, money and possibly a life dream lost. </p>
<p>So, overall, I agree, but I add I believe it is my job also to save my kids from certain struggles and failures, which are just too darn costly. They will have more than enough other struggles and failures from which to learn, however, standing by and watching an obvious potential train wreck would be abdication of some of my parental responsibility. </p>
<p>"have said to the other parents I’m sitting around that “D sure doesn’t have it today.” "</p>
<p>Why do you feel the need to “apologize” for her performance to the other parents? It’s not your performance. </p>
<p>To me, what you’re describing is throwing your kid under the bus to save your own face. </p>
<p>If I felt my kid needed “chastisement” (for lack of a better term) or an attitude adjustment, I surely would do that in the privacy of my own home, not make it public. </p>
<p>I bet their athletic “failures” hit you pretty hard. </p>
<p>When I did make small talk to other mothers, we talked about everything except the game. I want my kids not to think I’m sitting there evaluating their performance and looking at them with eagle eyes and critiquing them and their teammates. This is sports, who wins or loses is really of little consequence. If they want to win, great – I don’t need to act as though <em>I</em> think it’s important that they win or lose. In this area – yes, I just want them to have fun and enjoy themselves, not prove anything to anyone unless they want to. </p>
<p>"I will say “D should have made that shot” or “She’s really slow getting back.” </p>
<p>This makes me cringe just reading it. How would you feel if your kids talked that way about something you did?
Or your spouse? </p>
<p>My spouse cheered me on during a recent 5k where he was waiting at the finish line with a high-five and a hug. How would I have felt if he had remarked to other bystanders, “boy, she’s really slow”? </p>
<p>Well, awc, I agree. We didn’t need to monitor their homework or organization (and they juggled quite a bit.) On the field, forget it. Stick in place, no way. So be it. But a time came, when we had to emphasize certain things- make it clear to them there were certain actions, choices, decisions that could have repercussions, later. Because, in their comfort zone, they couldn’t realize everything on their own. I’d have hated for them to learn the college admit lesson in May of senior year in hs. As some of their friends did. But, that’s different than demanding or extracting their last ounce of sweat. Mine had lives. One thrived with over-scheduling. The list of things she did could make me a target, but it was her choice, her talent, her interest. (And looking back, she’s happy she took it all on.)</p>
<p>I did complain about one teacher- if I told the tale, all would agree he deserved it. That’s advocating for your kid, not steamrolling. And teaching them self-advocacy, eyes open, thinking about goals and working toward them, etc, can be important life lessons. That’s not crushing them. </p>
<p>Because, Pizzagirl, you don’t care about sports and I do. My daughter isn’t just playing to finish or for the exercise, but to win. The days of youth soccer and ‘everyone gets a trophy’ are long over for her, and she wants to win. If you wanted to win the 5k and didn’t, then it’s disappointing that you didn’t, but if you were just running to finish, you were successful. The parents are there to watch the game not to chat about other things (although we do). I know many of the rules that other parents don’t, so they’ll ask me about a call or a defense, and other parents know more than me so I like having their input on a shot or strategy. When I comment, I’m talking about the game not trying to save face. My daughter is the best on the team, and even when she’s having a bad game she’s better than most on the field but that doesn’t mean she was having a good game. If anything, I’m trying not to be a stage mother and brag about every pass or shot, but I’m not apologizing, just commenting. Last week she made a goal that had the entire stadium gasping as it was so hard, so sure, so perfect - if I’m going to comment on that one, I’m going to comment on the not-so-perfect ones.</p>
<p>I’m not embarrassed by her loses, her bad shots, missed passes any more than I’d be if she got a (gasp) B on a test, but every shot, every pass is not perfect and I don’t clap and say ‘good try’ when it wasn’t, just like every song sung or every test taken is not done with the best effort. </p>
<p>My daughter hates when people say ‘good game’ if she knows it was a horrible game. Then when they say ‘good game’ after a good game, it is meaningless. If a girl has not such a great game, I try to comment on one or two plays that were good, like “you made a great grab at the start of the second half.” She lost the game with the great shot by one goal, but she knew it was a really good game. It would have been better if she had won, but it was still a good game. And she should have made that shot that hit the pipe!</p>
<p>PG – what twoinanddone is saying is kind of hard to explain and I understand how it might sound, but in my experience it’s completely common when you reach a certain level of sport. Pretty much every parent of every kid who’s having a bad day is cringing a little and not because they feel bad for themselves. Parents tend to acknowledge that their kid is having a bad day and all the other parents understand because their kids have had bad days too. What you can’t do is criticize someone else’s kid, so we do it to our own to sort of acknowledge that we are aware of what everyone else is thinking. Your ‘outsiders’ analysis might be spot on, but I’m just saying that what twoinanddone is saying corresponds completely with my experience. Equally hard to explain unless you’ve experienced it is the concept that at some point the sport is about way more than fun, fitness and fresh air. I’m not saying that’s good or right; just saying that’s the way it is.</p>
<p>Right. But do you want her to win because SHE wants to win (and we all want what our kids want), or because it’s objectively important for her to win? </p>
<p>One of my kids has run (sometimes successfully and sometimes unsuccessfully) for positions in student government and other organizations at the college level. Of course I want my kid to win because I want him to achieve what he wants. But if he doesn’t, I don’t micro-analyze “what went wrong” or act like he could have done a better job. I believe my job is to say “good effort, you tried, more power to you” and NOT act like it’s a freaking big deal. I can be disappointed FOR him but it doesn’t require me to dissect his “failures.” And it isn’t helpful for me at the back end to say you should have done XYZ better. </p>
<p>Sorry, all the parents standing around criticizing the play of their own kids seems like sports-parent craziness at its finest. </p>
<p>“Last week she made a goal that had the entire stadium gasping as it was so hard, so sure, so perfect - if I’m going to comment on that one, I’m going to comment on the not-so-perfect ones.”</p>
<p>But why comment at all (to the other parents, that is)? Isn’t it possible to support your child with your presence and encouragement without having to actually be emotionally invested yourself in the outcome of the game? </p>