<p>@Saona63
There are TONS of kids out there with your son’s same resume. There are a lot of kids that have the drive your son has as well. The fact is only 5-8 % of kids are getting into Ivies. My son did exactly what he wanted to do; he was passionate about one EC, had performed in that area since 4th grade winning numerous district, regional, state, and even a national award this year (his senior year). He has been actively volunteering with our church since Kindergarten! His grades, ACT, GPA, SAT all fall within the Ivies standards. He had read so much on what it took to get into the Ivies he said he wanted to take the realistic approach and not even apply. He said there is nothing that makes me stand out; I’m just another white male from the midwest. His words; not mine. That being said whether it’s fair or not; you have to have something extra to get in these schools nowadays. </p>
<p>EllieMom - It had nothing to do with requiring prep. Just because something does not require prep does not mean it is worth doing or one gets something from it. We felt they were not worth doing, as well as many other activities that too many students seemed to be shunted into. We just choose to shunt our kids out. </p>
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<p>Yes, but it is not as easy for everyone, and some schools are extremely opiniated about what is mandatory, even when shown how wrong they are. And not easy at all! Also, if not impossible, it also requires a family to be EXTREMELY well-versed in what will be expected in the next stage. It requires an understanding that goes well beyond the usual “knowledge” level of the parents, and more than often light years ahead of those people who are the gatekeepers for transcripts and curriculum. And, all in all, there is always that fear (totally unfounded) that the school could retaliate and write poor LORs and notes on the reports. Unfounded because the lack of action is more problematic than ruffling the feathers of a principal or GC who lives in the 1980s when the BWRK ruled the college admission landscape. </p>
<p>Compromises are always possible and no two stories or cases are identical. For some, it means to forego the PSAT and for others it might mean to forego that asinine PLAN in the 9th/10th grade for an early PSAT. For some, it might mean to accumulate as many AP options during the HS years (by playing the MS school well) and for others it might mean to “reject” the boondoggle altogether, or take the classes without testing or testing without taking the classes. </p>
<p>There isn’t a single path to success. Contrary to popular belief, students ARE admitted at our most prestigious schools (as in HYPS or top LACs) without submitting a single AP score. There is also little need for more than a dozen APs as the average number of APs for enrolled student at say Stanford (now the most selective research university in the nation) is closer to 4 than to a higher number. </p>
<p>Angular students tend to do better than the students following the old paradigm. Group players tend to do better than the old “Me and Me” student who acculates individual awards. And students who happen to have no difficulty to choose their “model” do better than the ones who follow a “paint-by-the-number” approach. </p>
<p>If the above sounds contradictory, it really is not that difficult to recognize the differences when you see them! And that is when the student is allowed to be him or herself! </p>
<p>Elite colleges do like first-generation students. Saona’s son was completely qualified and fit well within the accepted range for the Ivies and comparable schools. </p>
<p>kyproud, your son sounds mature and wise beyond his years. I am sure he will be successful in whatever he does.</p>
<p>@awcntb - I get it. Like I said, it doesn’t seem like a huge deal to me in terms of time savings. It’s an individual family’s decision, and it wouldn’t be mine personally. The “required volunteer hours,” on the other hand, would be something that I could see myself marching into the school board meeting to argue against, research and petitions in hand. ;)</p>
<p>@kyproud - Your son is has a very realistic view of the process, and I commend him for being so self-reflective. and internally honest. That is a tough, tough thing to do, especially when you are on top of your game like he is. Yes, that standout aspect is the defining criteria, and only he knows if he believed he had that piece of the puzzle. </p>
<p>Not knowing anything else, it sounds like he still had a shot. But, I do understand it takes time to prepare the shot, and he deduced the risk-reward was not on his side for the time spent. Best wishes to him in whatever he chooses to pursue.</p>
<p>@EllieMom - You focus on time-saving, but please note I also said freedom. We like the freedom to choose what we see best for our kids. Of course, other families should do as they wish. I was just giving an example of one family who did not join what people see as the crazy world of college admissions that begins from middle school it seems. </p>
<p>“The kids were all stressed knowing that for the top schools they needed 5s. 4s meant two weeks of gloom knowing they had to retake.” Retake an AP test? Really? I’ve never heard of a student retaking an AP test. Why would anyone do that? The following year they will likely have even more AP tests to deal with. Are they really going to re-hash last year’s material on top of that?</p>
<p>@sally305
@awcntdb
Thanks for the good wishes for my son; he has always marched to the beat of his own drum. That is for sure. He is very much looking forward to his brand new dorm at UK and, if all goes as planned, graduating debt-free in four years!</p>
<p>I’m sure the less-than-transparent evaluation process is particularly confounding for parents with cultural, educational, and professional backgrounds where assessment tends to be based on more concrete measures of achievement and accepted algorithms for decision making. And it’s not surprising that their reactions to the “black box of adcom” that spits out A/W/L decisions that do not match expectations often result in an arms race of pushing and preparing kids that is counterproductive for everyone involved. It’s baffling to me sometimes, too. That’s why I think it’s important to educate parents about the process of college admissions and the landscape of higher education in the US in a way that would empower kids and their families rather than enflame their fears and insecurities. </p>
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<p>I must have missed the original post that you quoted from. I’ve never heard of that either. Do people really retake AP exams? Is this a trend I’ve missed completely? </p>
<p>On state required standardized testing, we weren’t crazy about it, and probably could have opted out but then we realize that the school benefits from this (well, as long as your kid does above average 
) even in a small way. </p>
<p>It wasn’t a stress on our kids since it didn’t matter for college admissions anyway and it was a teachable moment about community.</p>
<p>@xiggi stated, "And that is when the student is allowed to be him or herself!’</p>
<p>In a nutshell, that is all we did, and we bypassed any system, which we deemed would impede as much.</p>
<p>Yes, we do know it is not that easy for everyone. </p>
<p>There is nothing I can add to your post, except say it is worth the read, especially the part of the overdone APs. However, I witnessed the tough part of that for many parents, i.e., the “crazy” part that this thread is about. </p>
<p>If your kids are in the top range of their class, there is this feeding and competitive frenzy, which occurs in earnest beginning in 10th grade. People got sucked into the excess because others kids are doing it. We chose to stay out of that environment.</p>
<p>@EllieMom and @Momzie - I was not as clear, as I should have been. What I meant was the following year they would add another AP class to make up for the class with the 4. So, their AP load got higher the following year if they got a 4 or less the year before. It was not the same AP test being retaken. However, I do know one kid who self-studied and retook two AP tests, so they are retaken by some. He got 5s the second time, so it worked for him.</p>
<p>@kyproud - I am definitely into the debt-free thing!! That is a bonus that is already giving returns; he just has not realized the return yet, but, as you already know, he will.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification…The thought of kids taking the SAT and ACT three, four, even five times is bad enough. Add multiple seatings of the same AP test over and over again on top of that…well, it just made my head spin! @-) </p>
<p>I totally agree with @awcntdb’s assessment of @xiggi’s post. </p>
<p>I’d be interested in exploring more ideas about how to stop the madness. There’s another thread on this forum that, in my opinion, illustrates the way that well-meaning parents can be duped into spending money and putting their kids into mismatched programs in the name of preparing them for their future. I’m not trying to be melodramatic, but it is sad to see something like that play out. </p>
<p>I don’t believe that kids would sign up for another AP class simply because they scored a 4 on a different AP class. For one thing, course selections are done at most schools in the spring. AP scores come out in July.</p>
<p>Anyway, I certainly hope that the kids who are actually successful in getting in to top schools aren’t the ones who are playing all these games. I worry about that a bit since I think my daughter would be disappointed to be in college with a bunch of kids who just do stuff to look good. She just did what she felt like doing and that didn’t include leadership that is just a title, organized service that you don’t want to be doing, sports or instruments that no one has heard of which interest you only because it makes you “stand out”, or societies of students who want to look good to colleges.</p>
<p>@mathyone - Well, they may not in your school district, but they sure did in mine. Whatever the scheduling was, that was a big topic about little Johnny’s schedule at sports events. We never had to deal with it, but it was part of the scenery that is for sure. </p>
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Ya think either will be OK with you? LOL. Congrats to him, and to you and your H.</p>