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<p>There have been several Asians who have blogged/written about their experience with this kind of parenting;there are links to some of these blogs/articles in this thread and the other thread about this book. Very few of them seem to be very supportive of this type of parenting.</p>
<p>I haven’t read this thread or even Sophia’s letter. I really don’t care too much what she thinks of her upbringing while she is still a teenager living at home. What I have noticed in other CC posts from kids who are supportive of strict, controlling parents is that they tend to express the idea that would not have achieved so highly but for their upbringing. In other words, they have adopted their strict parent’s view as to what is important in life (straight A’s, proficiency with a musical instrument, etc.) – and also their parent’s view of their own personal inadequacy. (It doesn’t occur to them that they might have developed and pursued separate interests on their own). At age 17, living at home, it is understandable that they may have that view – in a sense they have been brainswashed to think that and they have never experienced a time when they were away from their parent’s overarching influence.</p>
<p>So ask them when their opinion of their upbringing when they are 30.</p>
<p>Because when they live away from home, at a college, surrounded by other smart, capable, self-confident students – it’s quite possible they will discover for the first time in their lives what is missing. And when they begin to live in the adult world, where no one cares about standardized tests scores or who was high school valedictorian or if someone once took their turn at the piano at a youth music festival held at Carnegie Hall – when the success of relationships with friends and significant others depends on one’s ability to give and take, when the success on the job depends on one’s ability to take on independent responsibility, to be innovative and to be efficient – they may discover that they don’t have all the life skills they really need, and may wonder about what’s missing.</p>
<p>Maybe not. </p>
<p>But the point is, at age 17, living at home, they don’t have the outside experience to know. It’s easy to think one thing while still in the home environment, something entirely different when older, wiser, and looking back.</p>
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<p>Excellent point, calmom.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but all this shows that when kids are kids they are quick to jump to their parent’s defense. I don’t think it is the Stockholm syndrome exactly, I think it has to do with how dependent kids are on their parents. Kids will do anything to get along in a home, they have to, they have nowhere else to go. It is later, when they grow up and are independent and they don’t rely on their parents anymore that they can assess their upbringing more honestly.</p>
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<p>It’s very normal for a teenager to rebel. It’s curious to me that you would be so threatened at the thought of a kid rebelling that you would feel the need to resort to this type of name calling.</p>
<p>^ I am independent. Asian parents don’t have time out chairs as Americans do but there is something very similar. There is no name for it in English but essentially a kid has to stand in a corner for x amount of time. There are also the usual punishments such as taking away phone, TV, internet, etc. Dishonor is a big deal in Asian culture. When a child misbehaves, those who see the misbehavior will associate that poor behavior with poor parenting. This in itself isn’t abuse. It’s just a cultural norm. </p>
<p>It may be “normal” and acceptable (or even typical) in the west for teenagers to rebel but that doesn’t make it so in all other countries. The term “white washed” is just used to describe Asians who have rebelled against their own culture. For example, Asians who dye their hair blonde/brown, wear color contacts, and/or reject their respective Asian language. There are many Asian Americans/Canadians/Europeans that are proud of being “white washed”.</p>
<p>Aside from Ms. Chua, there has been an undercurrent about Math.
I find the bragging tone associated with linking (supposed) achievement in Math to a particular ethnic group extreme at times. Ummm there are lots of high achievers from all ethnic groups/countries. People seem to be very focused on pushing their own ethnic group. This is NOT beneficial for America, or doesn’t anyone care about that? Of I forgot, it’s only oneself one should care about, or one’s own kids, according to Ms. Chua.
In Silicon Valley it is known by all – clearly one can SEE it and friends/acquaintances openly acknowledge – that there are tremendous numbers of Chinese students specially tutored/prepped year after year in Mathematics (regardless of the fact they are enrolled in high-level Math courses each yr in HS, there is no learning disability nor defect in the curriculum, usually). So - to speak of Chinese students as “gifted” or more intelligent than other ethnic groups is off base. Their PARENTS are more committed to paying for ethnic-specific tutoring/prepping services, schools, teachers outside of school which they require their students to utilize regardless of interest in the subect, that is all.
It is time for individual student achievement, aptitudes, abilities, interests to be better assessed/recognized. There are too many ways of gaming college apps in this era of heightened competitiveness and some of the tactics are appalling.</p>
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<p>In Fall 2005, Jian Li applied to Harvard as a high school senior and was rejected. After matriculating at Yale in Fall 2006, he filed a civil rights complaint with the OCR against Princeton University which attracted nationwide attention and condemnation from pro-racial preference groups and praise from anti-racial preference groups. Unbeknownst to the public, however, was that Li had prepared a transfer application to Harvard during the same time.</p>
<p>Many parents and pundits here predicted that Li did himself a great disservice and made his name toxic. Turns out that Harvard accepted Li as a transfer, and as far as I know, he graduated from there last Spring.</p>
<p>So xiggi, given how well your prediction turned out half a decade ago, I wouldn’t be so confident that you’ll be right this time around.</p>
<p>Like there is any meaningful difference between going to Harvard, Yale or Princeton. What a loser.</p>
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<p>Asian on CC complains about racial preferences and negative action. What do you do? Call him a “loser.”</p>
<p>Asian from New Jersey complains about racial preferences and does something about it by filing a civil rights complaint with the OCR against Princeton, a complaint that was not dismissed as frivolous in 2008. What do you do? Call him a “loser.”</p>
<p>Looks like the only way for an Asian to be a “winner” in your eyes is to accept negative action and take it from behind. What a great world we live in!</p>
<p>I find it interesting that so many users pounced on Amy Chua but had far fewer things to say about Jed Rubenfeld. Any criticism that is directed toward Chua is simultaneously directed toward Rubenfeld, for theirs is a two-parent household, and if Chua “abuse[d]” her daughters, then so did Rubenfeld, for he did nothing to stop the “abuse” (at least, not “enough”).</p>
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<p>I agree.</p>
<p>Fab, whatever happened to Jian Li’s complaint? It has been what, 5 years with no resolution? And do you know what he is doing now?</p>
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<p>Call it racism?</p>
<p>Not only do many CC posters not put a blame on him, they are going to buy his book because
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<p>I was watching some American Sunday morning show on TV(outside of US), they had a segment about Chua. An expert said the reason so many parents have such a strong view about Chua is parents now a days are so insecure about their own parenting skills, it makes them feel good there is a “villain” whom they could pounce on. At the end of day, if people are secure and feel good about their own parenting skills then it really wouldn’t matter how bad or good someone is at it. We are constantly trying to justify our way is the best and only way.</p>
<p>Well, duh, fabrizio. If what she did was abusive, he is just as wrong for not stepping in and stopping it. No one has argued otherwise.</p>
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<p>I’d say most people are secure and feel good about their morals. But it still matters if other people–murderers, rapists, robbers, etc.–have poor morals. If people feel Chua has been abusive, it is perfectly reasonable for them to express outrage at this–whether they are confident in their own parenting skills or not.</p>
<p>I think it is over the top to compare Chua with
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murderers, rapists, robbers (have poor morals)<a href=“really?%20poor%20morals?%20they%20are%20criminals”>/quote</a>.</p>
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<p>As far as I know, it is still “ongoing” (ie. has not been resolved). With respect to Jian Li, I’m assuming that he graduated last Spring, but I have no idea what is he doing now. At least based on a few [url=<a href=“http://hoffman.physics.harvard.edu/people.php]photos[/url”>http://hoffman.physics.harvard.edu/people.php]photos[/url</a>] from Dr. Jenny Hoffman’s lab, he appeared to be happy while he was at Harvard.</p>
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<p>Ah, so the reason why you had nothing to say about Rubenfeld prior to my bringing him up is not because you and he belong to the same quote-quote un-quote “group” whereas Chua does not. No, not at all. You were silent because it was obvious that he shared the “blame.” I see.</p>
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<p>Oh, good grief. Amy Chua wrote the book, Amy Chua has been on TV (etc) promoting the book, she is describing her parenting style, it’s appropriate to focus the discussion on her. But now that you mention it? I do believe that I’ve written posts – not sure whether they were on this thread or another thread – in which I said I was spectacularly unimpressed with the father just sitting back and letting his wife treat their children like that. If her parenting is emotionally abusive – well, then, he’s an enabler.</p>
<p>How dare you suggest it’s “because we’re the same ethnic group.” BTW, I’m half Catholic and half Jewish. Does that make a difference? It is appalling that you would suggest I wasn’t discussing Rubenfeld because we are “the same ethnic group.” He didn’t write the book and he is pretty absent from the book overall.</p>
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<p>I agree it’s over the top to compare her with murderers, rapists, robbers, but I don’t think it is inappropriate to compare her with people of lesser means and social stature who are emotionally abusive. As someone said upthread, make her a single poor mother screaming at her kids and calling them garbage and threatening to burn their belongings and a call gets put into social services. But because it’s upscale piano-and-violin, it’s better. I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Look, this woman simply isn’t very bright if it took her til her kids were this age to figure that she could have turned them into high accomplishment kids without the meanness and nastiness and over-the-top pushing that she displays throughout the book. I don’t care what she got on her SAT’s and how brilliant academically she is. She’s not <em>bright.</em> And I’m tired of the definition that “bright” equals only academic prowess. None of the 2400 SAT’s and 4.0 GPA’s matter if you aren’t, well, bright.</p>
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<p>On second thought, fabrizio, you nailed it. Jews stick together, and we own the media too.</p>