<p>OH, I’m so sorry I even had that thought (much less posted it and scarred you all) but the parallels seem inevitable. </p>
<p>And now I wonder who would hate those parallels more???</p>
<p>sinflower - I’m not taking shots at Sophie. I don’t think she wrote the letter. I am very aware of the writing abilities of high school students - I work with them every day. And I know parents who edit and rewrite for their kids too - you are very kind.</p>
<p>I appreciate the clarification, even though I still disagree-- I think the voice of this essay sounds like that of many other teenagers I know. But ymmv.</p>
<p>And I wasn’t responding only to you in that part of my comment. The “taking shots” referred mostly to TheGFG, who wrote:</p>
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<p>I thought that was a really unfair and harsh way to speak of her. But again, ymmv.</p>
<p>Bchan, if the children have one J parent and are being raised Jewish - they are J by reform definition.</p>
<p>GFG - I work in a public school district in a wealthy socioeconomic area. I have heard many stereotypes about Asian students (I have even had counselors tell me that they love to see an Asian kid coming because they know they’ll be smart). I know Asian parents who set very high standards “even when the homework is finished, there is more studying that can be done”, but I have seen equally high standards from non Asian parents, the only difference that I can see is that the Asian parent is more likely to tell the truth about their parenting because it is more socially acceptable among their peers, they are less likely to call what they do obsessive. The non Asian parent who goes overboard often talks about balance and perspective and finding happiness out in public but says something entirely different at home. I know a prominent child psychiatrist in my area - Asian kids are not his bread and butter. I am very careful with stereotypes - white tigers do exist.</p>
<p>Thanks for the vote of confidence in my kids - you are right, no one will mistake them for robot overachievers, there were too many flowers along the path to needlessly hurry our feet.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - thanks for the clarification, I had been told that there is not universal agreement on this. I’m not religious in that rule following sort of way and I don’t really see what it matters in the scheme of things since the book isn’t about Jewish parenting - or the lack thereof, which seems to be the case since Chua dad is edited in print and in life it seems.</p>
<p><a href=“I%20have%20even%20had%20counselors%20tell%20me%20that%20they%20love%20to%20see%20an%20Asian%20kid%20coming%20because%20they%20know%20they’ll%20be%20smart”>quote</a>
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<p>Either these counselors are misinformed or you live in an area with lots of professionals. I know some B students no Chua mom can make them better and, yes, I know kids who top their classes without much hard work and aced the college entrance exams without much practice. Chua method simply does not work on the naturally talented kids.</p>
<p>Now “pretty unimpressive” qualfiies as vitriol and an accusation of evil? Don’t you think you might be exaggerating a tad, sinflower?</p>
<p>I wasn’t comparing the quality of her letter to what an average teenager would write. I was comparing it to the work of those exceptional students who fall into the category of admissible applicants to Ivy League universities and peer schools. Isn’t that a primary goal of this parenting method? To produce highly accomplished children who can earn a spot in the best universities, so they can secure the best jobs, and so on? Furthermore, one supposes that her letter has been improved through editing.</p>
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<p>By the NY Post? Not sure if that is help or hindrance.</p>
<p>… Sophia wrote the letter. Why people keep saying she probably didn’t … may have to do because they DON’T want to believe she wrote it, or that she is normal. Think about that and why some people want to think that way. Don’t attack this idea, think about it.</p>
<p>lake42ks - I work in an area with a lot of professionals but even then not all Asian kids are smart, they aren’t all good at math. Even with evidence of exceptions to the stereotype equally available for observation the stereotype lives on; if you want to believe a stereotype is true you simply discount the authenticity of the exceptions and your belief system remains intact. I’m not denying that there are differences in cultural values and the resulting emphasis that parents put on the importance of things, but that doesn’t mean that all Chinese parents behave the way Amy Chua does.</p>
<p>If I had to pick the nuttiest parental behaviors I’ve witnessed over the years (and of course this is my opinion, they might think I’m nuts too) the parental list would span the rainbow of ethnicities - the only common denominator I can think of is a tendency toward beliefs on the fringe and extremest positions in general. In some cases I have no idea how the kids have turned out, in others the kids seem to be doing very well and in some cases things seem to be hitting a rocky patch here and there - I count dropping out of college at 18 or running away to join a cult as bad outcomes along with alcoholism and drug abuse. No ethnic group has the market cornered on controlling parental behavior as far as I can tell. </p>
<p>I think the cultural norm of sending your kid to school and to after school tutoring that exists in China (which is not abusive parenting, it is how their school system works) makes it easier for the Chinese parent to openly admit to pushing their kids if that’s their inclination, but setting a high standard is not the same thing as manipulating and abusing the kid - Amy Chua is an aberration in that regard. The same kind of school/tutoring regimen exists here for many caucasian children in high pressure private schools - the difference is that their parents hide the fact that they go to tutoring X times per week because that would make their children appear weak. The caucasian parents that go to outrageous extremes of tutoring and practice usually make a point to tell anyone who will listen that things just come naturally to their kid. If I were to pinpoint a cultural difference in education I would say that the true Asian model is more a position of valuing hard work over talent while the western system seeks to discover and reward “talent”.</p>
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<p>Very well put, bchan1. That’s probably why I think the Asian model is good for the vast majority while the Western model is good for the few talented. What leads the world forward is the new ideas/technologies that come out of the few (IMO).</p>
<p>“Bchan, if the children have one J parent and are being raised Jewish - they are J by reform definition”</p>
<p>that is the official position of the Reform movement, and has been for over 20 years. It is NOT accepted by the Conservative and Orthodox movements, but no one here said it has been. While there may be some Reform rabbis who do not support it (Reform does allow for diversity of positions within its rabbinate) AFAIK its not really a matter of controversy within Reform.</p>
<p>To clarify, the official position of Reform is that “being raised Jewish” involves Jewish education (at a synagogue Hebrew school) from a relatively early age (NOT just before the bar mitzvah, IIUC) AND that it means NOT being educated or raised in another religion at the same time. There are clearly many intermarried couples who think of themselves as “raising the kids Jewish” who do not meet the official position of the Reform movement, and there are Reform synagogues that do allow bar/bat mitzvah ceremonies for those kids. </p>
<p>I doubt though (without reading the book, which might clarify) that the Chua family skirted the rules. They don’t seem like the type to do so. I would bet that the Chua girls clearly meet the Reform movement standards for Jewish education.</p>
<p>as for the “some things shes doing are good” posts, thats kind of missing the point. Its like someone wrote a book about a starvation diet, and you point out that well, at least avoiding between meal snacks was a good idea.</p>
<p>Most of what she did that was good is commonplace advice from other sources. What made the book notable, whats got the publicity, is the self proclaimed extremity and rigidity of her approach. THAT is what is under discussion, not the reasonable ideas that have been pushed to their point of absurdity.</p>
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Ha! That puts it in a nutshell.</p>
<p>thought you’d all find this an interesting read;
at the end, Janet Maslin talks about husband’s book(S) which actually sound more of an interesting read…anybody wanna push up the sales of his v hers??</p>
<p><a href=“Amy Chua’s ‘Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ - Review - The New York Times”>Amy Chua’s ‘Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ - Review - The New York Times;
<p>alibaba - were you there when Sophie wrote the letter? We are all entitled to our opinion on who actually wrote it but I think it’s incredibly naive to think that even if Sophie penned a letter of praise for mom that it would be printed without much screening and supervision - and not just from mom. This is spin control and protecting the investment of a publishing house.</p>
<p>The letter relies on simple visual imagery of family life to prove that all is normal, it does not reveal the kind of self-awareness or sense of place that one would expect from an Ivy caliber student, it is not insightful. Considering the dramatic impact that Mom’s literary aspirations must be having on Sophie and Lulu, I am sure there is something more substantial that could have been said besides we watch movies together and eat fried rice with our hamburgers - and mommy even let us have two dogs! This letter reads like ad copy for “normal American family”, even the mention of the boyfriend seems awkward (and yes, I am still of the opinion that he does not exist except in ‘ad copy land’).</p>
<p>I really, really hope that Sophie did not write the letter. I’d like to think she has more going for her than this.</p>
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<p>Why spending time in idle speculation about the author of the letter? Regardless of its true author, the letter amounts to nothing else than a feeble and lacking effort to dismiss potential and current critics. It’s pretty much the same trite story of “It is really not how it was or Mom did not mean to say that.” </p>
<p>Another obvious conclusion is that this mother, despite all her declarations of love, does not seem to hesitate to place her children in the limelight, if it helps her own image. Even if the daughter WANTED to write such “essay”, she should have saved her daughter the additional scrutiny. </p>
<p>Of course, nothing else could be expected from Chua.</p>
<p>^^^Rodney. I’m going to put Jed’s forthcoming book (that you linked in post #76) on my must-read list. He’s special, too.</p>
<p>My parents are Chinese immigrants who also had high expectations of me while growing up. While my parents were not as strict as Amy Chua, I share some similar experiences that her daughters are going through. </p>
<p>Looking back as an adult, I really wish my Chinese parents were more strict and were more like the “tiger moms/dads” that are often seen in Asian homes. This is not Stockholm syndrome speaking. I can say with complete honesty that I love my strict Chinese parents. </p>
<p>Amy Chua’s story is actually very typical and many Asians are bonding over her story/book with laughter because of the way she highlights the Asian culture. Most Asian kids don’t see this parenting style as abuse. The Asian kids who do rebel against traditional Asian parents are said to be “white washed” which is a term used to describe Americanized/westernized Asians. </p>
<p>If you would like to know more about the effects of Asian parenting, why not ask Asians who have first hand experience?</p>