Why include expensive colleges on list??

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I’d like to add a word about value here as well. If I stretch to buy a Volvo instead of a Chevy, and the Volvo’s extra safety features later save my child’s life in an accident, I will consider that the best money I ever spent.</p>

<p>While I completely agree that going into debt for an MT degree is probably not wise, I do think that for some kids the more expensive option may end up being better (and ultimately maybe even cheaper) than the less expensive choice. Using myself as an example, I got a Theatre degree and then later went back to school for an Engineering degree. If I’d been able to do both in the same 4 years, I’d not only have saved almost half of my tuition money, but I’d have also “saved” three years of my life. ;-D</p>

<p>Also, my SIL has been a high school counselor for over 30 years, and she says she’s seen untold numbers of kids drop out or transfer out of inexpensive schools that they’d chosen rather than the schools they really wanted to attend, while she’s seen the families who reach for the best school they can end up finding all manor of creative ways to make it work.</p>

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<p>It is ultimately a matter of financial comfort for each family and is a very personal choice. The only thing I can’t emphasize enough is not to eliminate a school from your list based solely on the fact that it is above your financial means. Those schools occasionally come through with scholarships of some sort that make them a realistic alternative. Just be very cognizant of the fact that if those schools accept you W/O providing adequate aid, you must be emotionally ready to scratch them off your list and move on. </p>

<p>On a personal note, my D originally attended the school of her dreams that was more than we had ever planned on spending. With scholarships it brought it down to something we could handle, but not easily. It turned out to be a totally wrong choice for her- not at all what she thought it would be- and she left after a semester. Fortunately, she transferred to a much less expensive program that has turned out to be the new “school of her dreams” - she absolutely loves the school and the program. So in her case, the expensive, “top” program was not for her- but again it is such a personal thing! She was not realistic about what she was looking for the first time, and we are very fortunate that it all worked out for her!</p>

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<p>@takeitallin – If our D decides to transfer to a less costly school, and is happier there, I’ll bet DH and I won’t cry for too long! ;-D</p>

<p>I’m gad you make the point that kids’ dreams evolve, as that was another reason our D’s top choice seemed like a safe, though not cheap, bet (assuming she finishes there). In our experience, some degrees have more cache in the world beyond theatre than others.</p>

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<p>An interesting article on this topic from the NY Times can be found at:</p>

<p>[Is</a> Going to an Elite College Worth the Cost? - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/weekinreview/19steinberg.html]Is”>Is Going to an Elite College Worth the Cost? - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>If you ask 'em, you will find many, many directors and casting directors have very strong feelings about certain colleges and their theatre programs. And yes they do check to see where you went to school. Sigh.
But then I remind myself of some favorite performers who didn’t go to the top, top schools and are having amazing careers.</p>

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<p>My son was at an audition when he was deciding between two schools. The musical director, the casting director and the audition monitor all expressed their opinions on his options unequivocally.</p>

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<p>An obvious but important thing to keep in mind is that not everyone is shopping for the same things when they select a school. For example, our D definitely was not interested in choosing a school based solely on which school would best train her for those first post-college auditions. She felt that if that was her goal, she’d do just as well heading straight to NYC and putting together a team of top-notch trainers. </p>

<p>She was looking for a full college experience, including exposure to amazing professors in all sorts of non-theatre subjects as well as intelligent peers, awesome a capella groups, a classic college campus including sports teams to cheer for, etc. She definitely wanted to double major in 4 years, and wanted to leave with a degree that would be of high value even if she later chose a career outside of theatre.</p>

<p>If she had been looking only for MT training, her choices might have been very different.</p>

<p>So part of a decision about which degree is worth how much $ to which students has to do with which “features” of each school are of value to that particular student.</p>

<p>Viva la difference!</p>

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<p>So are you saying classicalbk and lojosmo that it they should choose the top tier school and be in debt rather than a “perceived lesser” school that is more affordable?</p>

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<p>Chosing a school and justifying its expense is a complicated and very personal choice. I agree with all the posters who warn against students leaving school with high debt. But that said, the question about the actual value of any choice in higher education is very subjective.</p>

<p>I agree with Momcares in that it depends on one’s goal. My D was able to get into high ranking schools that would meet her “academic” needs (Barnard, Brandeis) as well as a school like NYU that met both her academic and MT goals.</p>

<p>So once we decided that we could swing it financially (with grandparent help and by working additional hours on my part), in D’s case the answer was clearer.</p>

<p>D will be graduating from NYU with a VP degree in MT and minors in English lit and Music/Entertainment business. We felt going into her program that NYU would offer many academcic options, internships and classes taught by professionals in all aspects of the entrtainment world. The school delivered and I feel that there is the added benefit of graduation from a school that is highly regarded and opens doors in many areas through its reputation and through networking.</p>

<p>D would be happy as a performer or happy to produce or market shows/films/music/or tv. Actually in the perfect world she would mix all of the above. She would not have been happy in a program that was just focused on theatre and did not allow her real-world opportunities. She did not long for football games or want to be in a campus bubble. So for her the “expensive” school was her top choice and the right one.</p>

<p>Obviously I have no way to see what the future will bring in terms of opportunities or payback. Or whether her job opportunites will justify the cost of her education if you measure it that way. But I am measuring our choice by the quality of her 4 years at the school and what it taught her–where she was as an incoming freshman and who she is now.</p>

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<p>I really believe this whole topic is a matter of of personal choice, there really is no “right” answer, but here are some things we learned this last year that might help some people wrestle with the whole topic with more information:</p>

<p>*As a rule, the private (generally more expensive) schools gave lots more merit money, both academic and talent. We were surprised to find that the most affordable schools in the end were private. That’s not to say that a public school could not offer a substantial package, its just that for us, they did not.</p>

<p>*I have heard (and seen written, i think, but i couldn’t find it) Ken Martin at Coastal Carolina talk on this subject, around training, cost, perceived value of different names, and it was an invaluable reminder. I don’t want to quote him, but hopefully he will chime in.</p>

<p>*I have heard Dr. John explain why schools don’t necessarily take “all the best kids”, ask him sometime about what would happen if he had 20 seats to fill and “all the best kids” were 5’4" blond sopranos. Would one school ever take all 20?</p>

<p>*The perceived “best named schools” to have on your resume change with frequency…a couple always remain on the “list”, but a lot of the others come and go in and out of vogue like platform shoes. </p>

<p>*It’s amazing how many different “industry professionals” have commented that certain schools are “the ones to go to if she can get in”…it’s also amazing how many different names are bandied about. I believe that part of that is that some feel like acting programs are the way to go(over MT), whether you want to do MT or not, for longevity in the industry…some feel like BA programs serve better in the end…some feel like MT programs are better because the bulk of the jobs when they graduate at 22 are in the chorus of musicals (so you better sing and dance)…some feel that all must go to grad school eventually and some schools prepare for that better than others…folks in LA gave a bunch of different schools than folks in NY…its really crazy.</p>

<p>*I think there are times when having your resume say “GOBlue” on it will be invaluable as an MT student." But just because yours does not, doesn’t mean you have no chance. </p>

<p>"Some kids are amazingly talented and for one reason or another don’t audition at the perceived “top schools”, whose name recognition alone seems to be a reason to audition for others. That just means that there are amazingly talented kids everywhere…not to mention that the “best schools” can’t take everyone who is uber-talented anyway, they are all going somewhere. </p>

<p>"the admissions process is very subjective in this field. While its true that there may be the occasional contender who gets into “all the schools” they apply to, and we have known 2 boys who have had this experience, and a girl over the years, who came close, the stories that proliferate, are not those. We also know a girl who was wait listed at a “top school”, but got into no other programs. We know a girl who got into a “top school” but it was her only acceptance. In her case, one was definitely enough.</p>

<p>*Some people believe that talented boys also garner most of the merit funds out there…that may be true, we know one who is getting 80% of his way paid at a “top public school”, but we also know a couple of very talented ones that got into a “top school” but deferred for a year to save money…that tells me that the money eventually runs out even for the most talented!</p>

<p>*I think the biggest thing that was clearly shown to us was that most of the money comes from academic merit, we were really grateful for our daughter’s perseverance in taking difficult classes throughout her 4 years, including her senior year and getting good grades, it simply paid off in cash and that was a bonus. </p>

<p>*Something like 2% of Equity actors are making a living at acting…i am not a stats person but that tells me that no matter where you go to school, the chance of making a career out of acting is slim for EVERYONE…</p>

<p>I am so grateful that our daughter landed somewhere great…and i trust that those of you who are about to head out on those audition trips, will feel similarly this time next year…</p>

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<p>Not at all CalMTMom… I was just mentioning that those decision makers had definite opinions and let it be known.</p>

<p>As others have said…
perceived value is subjective and personal
my son’s award at the school he is attending made it affordable; it was not so before we knew what that award was.</p>

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<p>@mybroadwaybaby – Great post that I’m sure many folks will find very useful!</p>

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<p>Because education as a whole is expensive.</p>

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<p>Like lojosmo said, I’m not promoting debt. I’ve just had opportunity of late to realize that school reputation means something to people behind the table. I’d consider reputation a factor to include with all the other factors one considers.</p>

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<p>My D is a junior and we are just starting to come up with the list of schools she will auditon at. We are very concerned with the $$$$ and we can not afford to spend $40,000. She has average grades 3.6 GPA so at many schools she will not get a ton of or any academic money. We have had the “talk” with her about what we could afford, but a director she has worked with on 5 shows and has trained her is pushing her to try for some of the “top” name schools. Anyone have any sugguestions on schools for our list??</p>

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<p>mtgirlmom - Depending on her SAT or ACT score, your D would be eligible for between $4,000 and $7,500 per year in academic merit aid at Coastal Carolina University. If it’s a school she is interested in, then make sure she applies by January 1 if she is eligible for the President’s Scholarship award as it has an earlier deadline than the other scholarships. Tuition, room and board at CCU for an out-of-state student is about $29,000 per year.
[Financial</a> Aid Office](<a href=“http://www.coastal.edu/financialaid/meritbased.html#CCU]Financial”>http://www.coastal.edu/financialaid/meritbased.html#CCU)</p>

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<p>It also might be worth going to both the FAFSA and some schools’ financial aid web pages and plugging some numbers into their financial aid calculators. Some of the most expensive schools are actually the most generous when it comes to need-based financial aid.</p>

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<p>Thanks austinmtmom-- Coastal is one of the schools on her list. We visited it briefly last summer when we were in the area. Our only concern with the program is that they don’t have a dance dept./major so we were just a bit concerned about the amount of dance training available. My daughter is stronger in voice and really wants a school that is strong in dance. Can you send me a PM with your pros/cons about CCU and about the dance training.</p>

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<p>We were kind of in the same boat as you. My D went ahead and made a list of schools she was interested in. We made sure the list included schools that were safeties and reaches, both artistically AND financially. We made sure to include schools that she would be happy attending and that we could afford if absolutely no financial packages were offered. We also included a few that she was very interested in but that there was no way we could afford unless she got financial packages (scholarships only- we did not want any loans). Since we had no way of knowing what money would be offered until after acceptances to programs were issued (in most cases), we didn’t want to rule anything out until we saw what kind of money she could get. We were very up-front with her and made sure she understood that if she were accepted to a high priced program, she would not be able to attend unless they offered her a great package! It all worked out perfectly, and she was able to attend what ended up being her top choice school. Some of the more expensive programs, both public and private, can be very generous with scholarships, and it can bring the cost down below lower cost programs. In my D’s case, we are paying way less at an OOS public school than we would have at any of our in-state programs, so don’t rule out OOS schools because of cost!</p>

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<p>a thought: since applying to those high price schools can be done with a hope of getting merit money to lower the new cost (like with clothes: NEVER pay full price) having a conversation about what parents can afford BEFORE either application time or “getting the decisions” time is critical</p>

<p>classmate of one of my kids got accepted Tisch Theater program at NYU then parents had to say “whoops, we can’t afford it” . . . not a pleasant conversation</p>

<p>what we did was have a talk about what the NET costs had to be (i.e., list cost minus need-based and merit aid) so that when the OK to the dream school comes in with not enough money atttached the kid is ready for that outcome </p>

<p>bottom line: OK to “apply to all schools” as long as the $ discussion is had beforehand . . also helps to include the "you know, Vassar doesn’t offer merit aid so if you do get in you might not able to go " talk, too</p>