<p>In my years of high school, I have grown sick of the excess teenage hormones that permeate every corridor of the building. I just wish I could meet someone like myself who wants only to succeed rather than dream for/have love from the opposite sex. This is restricted to only people who don't like any member of the opposite sex (nor their own- so you could say it's the opposite of bi) and are only interested in secular values and the voice of logic, as in, why die for someone else? I know people say they would die for the people they love, but that's based on raw emotion, not on reasoning.</p>
<p>Eh I guess I'm just a different mold. The crappy part is that people see my ideas as threatening rather than different, when they accept so many other stupid ideas (such as marijuana being good for the body...surely)</p>
<p>You are right -- you are a "different mold"...hehe. Sorry I have never heard that expression before and found it a bit amusing.</p>
<p>People are brought up in different environments and with different belief systems, so you just believe what you believe. I don't see why people should attack your system when it doesn't do any harm...screw the people who do. </p>
<p>I guess I am one of the people who say...I would die for the people I care about. I do have a particular friend I would do this for...and some of it is based on raw emotion. But it's not like you'll see bursting streams of raw passion exploding from all over my body when I jump in front of that bullet...</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is restricted to only people who don't like any member of the opposite sex (nor their own- so you could say it's the opposite of bi) and are only interested in secular values and the voice of logic, as in, why die for someone else? I know people say they would die for the people they love, but that's based on raw emotion, not on reasoning.
[/quote]
Equilibrium?</p>
<p>On the other hand, I'm disturbed by people who treat everything like a digital computer that calculates profit from actions. There is no chance of crazy happiness in life of such people; they are boring; they will never experience ambivalent, spontaneous feelings. These are the people who are trying to predict unpredictable -- life.
How can there exist predicted, calculated, foreseen happiness? (c) One very good film from Soviet cinema</p>
<p>These are the people who try to mathematically explain everything;they count calories from food; they account enthusiasm after sex as some boost for the work; they count their seconds and read time-management books; they are willing to give up everything for success. They create schools of NLP and treat people in a sense of psychological machine, a bunch of neurons, something that behaves by certain patters.</p>
<p>How can you live with that? If you still enjoy your life right now (as in this moment) and not some abstract success that will come to you after age of 30, I can only be jealous of your condition. Otherwise, think hardly, do you live the life now or prepare it for yourself of old age?</p>
<p>I don't think the op was trying to predict everything in life, and I don't really think that the use of logic makes a 'boring' person. Spontaneous feelings =/= happiness either. Happiness is different things to different people. </p>
<p>I think I'm a bit more emotionally removed than some other people because I don't see the point in high school relationships at all. There is so much emphasis placed on them and 'finding love,' as if that is the final peak one can reach in life. There are other things more important to me.</p>
<p>Harmony is the key. It is not right to put all your life about lust. But its even worse to isolate yourself from emotions completely and concentrate on mythical success.</p>
<p>Example.
Passion to programming/computers is good. Being a completely isolated geek is bad.
Passion to sports is good. Being a dumb jock who takes sports too seriously is bad.
Do not take it seriously, people, have everything in moderation :)</p>
<p>There is no transcendental basis for "meaning" in life.</p>
<p>What is meaning, anyways? It's so hard to objectively define.</p>
<p>I think of it as comparing stimulations to goal-based computer games. In SimCity and The Sims, there are no goals. There is no "game over - you win". There is no "game over - you win" in life either. In both the simulation and in life - it's just "you leave the world, and whatever you got out of it, so be it." If you define success in SimCity by means of money or logic, then one just builds up and gets bored somewhere in the process of building up - usually when the Sims are comfortable and the city can't go any further. One can still build more facilities and gain more cash out of their houses or cities - but what additional meaning is there from continuing on? (unless one defines meaning as accumulating more and more money. It's so horrendously boring once you reach such stages, and your only goal is more money. You could just then let the simulation run overnight, and still achieve that meaning). The games are closed systems, and there is little else to discover. </p>
<p>Then how do you find meaning out of such a game like SimCity or The Sims? Why do people share their cities/houses with people online?</p>
<p>One finds meaning in those games if one sees art in those games. If one sees something other than the money. Then one actually pursues those games with a more-than-superficial reason. That art is more-than-superficial. That art provides meaning and motivation to pursue the game further, once its intrinsic challenges are met.</p>
<p>I don't see meaning in such games - which is why I've abandoned them long ago. I'd rather kill myself than play another game of SimCity (metaphorically speaking). Meaning is an art. An art socially influenced, to be sure. But it gives motivation to pursue a goal-less simulation. I don't see meaning in life either. I don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing. But there is something that's interesting. That's the word. If nothing has any transcendental meaning, why not pursue something interesting? I suppose, there are interesting things out there. And so long as I can always find something interesting, at least I won't be lying in bed all day.</p>
<p>SimCity is a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system. And at least there are always interesting things to investigate on Earth. Such interesting things do not exist in SimCity.</p>
<p>What is the definition of "success" to you? Is logic, reason and empirical analysis all there is to the world? In absolute terms of physics, we are merely a grouping of atoms created by a combination of quarks held together by various forces in a universe where space and time are relative to each other. </p>
<p>I don't mean to argue your thoughts, they are your own to keep, but I think life is more than a calculation of logical thinking and more a series of natural behaviors. </p>
<p>^ In Sims I would be less bored if it involved destroying things rather than building them. As in SimDictator 3000: Control your own totalitarian party!.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What is the definition of "success" to you? Is logic, reason and empirical analysis all there is to the world? In absolute terms of physics, we are merely a grouping of atoms created by a combination of quarks held together by various forces in a universe where space and time are relative to each other.</p>
<p>I don't mean to argue your thoughts, they are your own to keep, but I think life is more than a calculation of logical thinking and more a series of natural behaviors.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Success is arbitrarily defined. There is no way to empirically derive success from an axiomatic system without defining an outcome as success. Which then begs the question - which definition of success is more valid than another? And why? </p>
<p>Once one realizes that one's previous reasons for "success" were arbitrary, one may desire to seek something else. That is an alternative form of meaning, a meaning without a goal in itself. Meaning is an art. It cannot be logically derived from previous axioms.</p>
<p>The problem of "maximizing one's own genetic fitness" (I'd include memetic fitness as well) is that this is also arbitrarily defined. It's a goal. It's not a goal-less art. What meaning is there to it other than a goal? Does one find pleasure in such a goal? Moreover, one must be aware that one's descendants will not last forever. All will be lost due to the eventual heat death of the universe, regardless of whether or not we escape the solar system when the sun goes red giant.</p>
<p>The question is - do you find pleasure pursuing such a goal? You can define a goal as such. A goal that will erode to nothingness for sure. But why pursue a goal when one can just pursue an art? The only reason is because the art makes one feel better than the goal. But that's sufficient reason to pursue it. </p>
<p>Can one be content without a goal to pursue? Yes. And that "contentedness" comes from an art of some sort. The art is the art of living your life in some way that makes you feel better. Just like "art" in the way of paintings is designing a canvas/illustration that makes you (or others) feel better in some way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's a lot more satisfaction in getting laid than there is in getting an A on your next math test.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, because those who were biologically inclined to find more pleasure in getting laid had genes that successfully propagated, compared with those who were not so biologically inclined.</p>
<p>On the other hand, an art can consist of a number of goals in itself (after all, you are motivated to do something in within).</p>
<p>So life has its own subgoals. Arbitrarily defined subgoals of course, but nonetheless subgoals in itself.</p>
<p>Of course, there's no way to justify such subgoals either. Years ago, my subgoal was to "pwn some n00bs." Unfortunately, I ended up getting pwned myself, in n00b-only games. You would imagine how angry I felt when my subgoals were not met. Groan. Oh well. The beauty of art is that you can then choose another subgoal to define when you original one fails. My original one was made in a time when I was ignorant of money, of course.</p>
<p>Remember Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? It's intriguing. We live in age of surplus. We seek self-actualization, once all our basic needs are met. We have choice. And with choice, there is no logical reason why I should be studying more (theoretical subjects unnecessary for more money, such as partial differential equations), as opposed to getting pwned in n00b-only games (assuming that I can acquire food and money for food either way, which is true for the next few years anyways). It takes something other than logic to decide that I value the studying of partial differential equations more than the "getting pwned in n00b-only games." That "something other than logic" can be whatever I find more pleasure in than the other.</p>
<p>Well, of course partial differential equations are a step to another goal, but it takes something other than logic to value that goal over the goal of working at McDonald's and then getting pwned in n00b only games in my spare time.</p>
<p>Wait, why the hell am I even studying? <em>ponders opening up Age of Empires II</em> It's an art in itself for me to see myself as doing some job other than McDonald's. Even when one chooses to pursue money as opposed to pursuing more leveling up in World of Warcraft - that is an art in oneself - for one who argues for the pursuit of money, who enjoys pursuing money more than leveling up, cannot argue with one who argues for the pursuit of more levels in World of Warcraft, who enjoys leveling up more than earning money (assuming that both such individuals stay the same of course => it's not purely an art, since people do have a human nature to fall back upon, and that makes people more inclined to pursue certain art forms over other art forms). Haahaha. <em>controls impulse to play Age of Empires II</em></p>
<p>You can't deny that seeing yourself with $$$$$$ is an art form of some sort. ;)</p>
<p>To see myself in some such position, even when I can take pleasure in vicariously experiencing the life of academia through blogs.</p>
<p>Still, it's a non-logical step as to whether you will value something that lasts or something that doesn't last, especially since nothing will last the heat death of the universe.</p>
<p>I used to be a lot like you. i'm assuming you're really smart and like reading up on different schools of thought, and seek to expand your perspective on life and find new, logical ways to make conclusions about various choices life throws at you and blah blah blah... with a lot of computer games thrown inbetween (your seamless implementation of "n00b" and "pwnage" leans me to this assumption)</p>
<p>that's cool, mos def, but just don't overanalyze stuff. Why the hell are you even studying? well, good question. don't imagine yourself when you want to accomplish a goal. ever seen rocky horror picture show? watch it. "don't dream it. be it!"</p>
<p>and if Qwertz thinks getting laid is better than getting an A on a math test, then don't spew out a bunch of darwinist biological crap. i, presonally, don't want my own kids at all. i couldnt care less about "immortalizing myself" or passing on my family name or whatever, but i definitely agree with Qwertz. the reality is, 5 years from now, it's not gonna matter at all whether or not you got an A on the test, or who you screwed! and if you do care, either you're worrying way too much about math or you lost your virginity and haven't gotten laid since. like you said, the universe is gonna own itself eventually anyway.</p>
<p>Hahaha, I love overanalysis. It's my way of life right now. ^_^ (I can say that it's my form of art basing on what I said earlier, since it doesn't have much of a goal in itself, but I like doing it. It may not be art that many people will appreciate, but that doesn't stop it from being art that a few can appreciate. I used "pwn n00bs" to add some light-heartedness into it ^^). I'm just trying to draw tentative conclusions. ^^ It's possible that someone may catch onto my overanalysis and comment on it as well (that is my hope, even if it is unlikely). At least it's an online forum.</p>
<p>And as for what I'm studying, applied math, cuz it's the future of everything (except pure math. ^_^). </p>
<p>5 years from now, it may matter if you got laid or not (STDs =P) or if you get an A on your math test or not (if, say, a failure on one test triggers an endless stream of self-fulfilling prophecies). Of course, whether you care about it or not, that's different. If your values are elastic, then you'll find ways to adjust to both scenarios.</p>
<p>And I was just bringing up thought scenarios. I don't relate to any forms of wasting time except for those that relate to computer games or online forums, so that's why I brought up the topic.</p>
<p>==
I also consider this topic worthy of overanalysis because once one's basic needs are met, self-actualization is EVERYTHING. And here we discuss self-actualization</p>
<p>Logic is arbitrary as well. Logically it's not worth it to say, study 50 hours for an A if 25 hours will also get you an A, just not as high, or if 2 hours will get you a B. It's not logical to work double the amount for a 25% say, increase in salary. It's not even logical to spend that much time working and studying to say an MBA when your success in the end, depends more on being lucky enough to be hired by the right boss, meet the right person at the right party because you happened to like the same wine. </p>
<p>Success as well, people are passionate, but that doesn't mean there's no reasoning, it's just different value sets their reasons are working under. You termed success pretty vaguely as well. For one person success is measured by protecting the person they love, it's not just passion, it's balancing, logically, the importance you place on your own life against the importance you place in values. Gandhi places the importance of his values above his life, and in his terms, he was wildly successful.</p>
<p>Your ideas are no different from anyone elses, the only difference is what you consider most important to you. The reasoning is the same whether it's Love, your country, or your money you care most about. You wouldn't work ten years for a dollar, just like I'm sure not many people wouldn't work ten years for a hug, or for a 1% rise in GDP. However everyone has places value on what they have, and balances it against the value of what they hold dear.</p>
<p>Why die for someone else?</p>
<p>In cool logic...it's worth it for one person die to save a coutnry from being nuked? simply in cost of human lives...
Then it's worth it for one person to die to save two people...
Then if that one person would live a miserable life if the second died...then one miserable life is worth it for one happy life...</p>
<p>Ah well...just saying...your ideals of reasoning aren't just your own...everyone has that, it's just your values that are different.</p>
<p>dude, discussing this stuff is wasting your time. stop thinking about all this stuff and just do the things you love, and if overanalyzing is your life passion, then you've ended your life too soon.</p>
<p>lol you guys COMPLETELY missed my sentiments. I am somewhat "normal" person with your videogames, sports, movies etc. I just strongly reject the trifecta of liberal behaviors. One would expect me to be some devout religious celibate; nah, I'm a deist who believes strongly in scientific principles. </p>
<p>To address "getting laid to have kids": genetic engineering. That's all there is to it. However, we all know most people would not want to lose the satisfaction of having their kid being born in a lab (and for some of us...clones)...this is where the realism kicks in.</p>
<p>No, I am not too obsessed with seeing everything in a scientific way. I just prefer that path and believe me, I do show emotion. It's usually in the form of lots of laughing because I say some of the stupidest stuff (inside jokes FTW lol) and another "conservative" comrade of mine ROFLs at these jokes and so do I.</p>
<p>However, to resist temptation is the ultimate test of discipline. I'm not someone restraining pent up feelings, just someone casting the unneccessary ones away and being candid with the others, which do nothing to destroy my principles.</p>
<p>I stil got a lot of life to live, I just find myself influenced by Aizen when I make these threads ;) (to whoever got that, don't try to call me a noob because you know that he's awesome)</p>