<p>I agree with the rest of the posters in that Cal supporters on this site vastly outnumber some of the other top schools. This allows them to start overrating Berkeley and comparing it to schools with kids that don't usually defend their own schools (MIT, Harvard, etc.). Of course the rest of the boards will offer some resistance to such blatant bias for Cal (look at Xiggi's post of quotes from the Cal kids).</p>
<p>My further observation would be that some Cal kids are insecure about their school. Public school alumni/students are somewhat more biased towards their own school than the private ones for some reason (Examples: Alex and Umich, a few UVA kids). UVA is a bit better in this respect as it keeps a fun/frat atmosphere. Anyways this is just an observation from my time here on these boards. Public kids are usually pretty quick to defend their flagships and in the case of Cal, overrate them.</p>
<p>...well, there're quite a few biased supporters for privates as well. </p>
<p>Personally, I think Cal is a good school, but I'd rank it below Umich and UVA for undergraduate. I think some of the people who support Cal as a superior school do not understand the value of undergraduate education in the U.S., as outlined by Slipper.</p>
<p>Vic, you missed the point ... again. Here's the conclusion of Post 22.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As I said in this post, every post--even when absolutely factual--that happens to have a negative overtone is guaranteed to recreate a West Coast version of the Wailing Wall. </p>
<p>The reactions in this thread just confirmed my earlier point with great clarity, with the gem posted by Vic, "So why did you only attack Berkeley?" taking the cake. Wonder why it becomes so tiresome after a a few years?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>By the way, why are you so fixated about the issue of being biased? Aren't you biased yourself? Of course, this is all part of this phenomenon: anyone who does not drop to the ground with a deep genuflexion MUST be biased. After all, anyone who dares speaking about the august academic fortress in a pejorative manner MUST be based. Ah, the infidels! </p>
<p>For the record, I now realize having stumbled in this silly hornest' nest of a discussion. Going back a bit, I did indeed find countless posts with the same arguments and many of the same actors engaging in the same trite debates. Well, carry on, my friend, but without me. I've said all I needed to say on this issue, and my stated opinion about Berkeley's deficiencies has not changed, nor did my positions about the fanatical zeal to attack anyone who does not see THE light. </p>
<p>I hope you'll find discussing the issues with a self-selected group of Cal worshippers more productive. Good luck!</p>
<p>The point is most of the people on these forums are US students who plan on working in the US, and here we ARE aware of the top LACS and what are good undergrad schools vs. grad schools. Berkeley might be as good as Stanford in ONE area, which is quality of professors, but it loses out to the privates in EVERY other category. Cal is not only not as good as HYPSM for undergrad, it isn't close to Brown, Penn, Dartmouth, or Duke and rather is closer to Emory and Michigan when it comes to the real value it offers.</p>
<p>Great point, slipper. If there was a ranking of most distinguished faculty, it would look a lot different than the US News rankings. Michigan and Berkeley would go way up in such a ranking. But the actual benefit one gets from the great faculties at large universities would seem to be diluted a bit due to the larger number of students vying for the profs' attention.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Isn't Berkeley where the dumb kids on the OC ended up going to?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yup. As with any large school, Cal does have it share of idiots. Not that I care - I've only been here a few weeks, but I absolutely LOVE my professors, and that's all that counts! Then again I've heard some bad stuff from other freshmen students regarding other professors...</p>
<p>
[quote]
UVA is a bit better in this respect as it keeps a fun/frat atmosphere.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And this is way I believe they're the best public undergrad.</p>