Not sure where to put this, so I thought I’d ask here?
So I read an article about the dangers and woes of Asian parenting styles and how horrible they are and can be for children. But I want to know why they focus so much on Asian families? Many other cultures and households have the same/similar standards for their kids. My parents have very strict rules for me and my siblings and have never allowed us to spend the night at someone else’s house, watch TV, get poor grades etc and this is what I would call the norm for most Eastern European families and many religious families. So why do they pick on Asians specifically when this is a very common practice in white families too?
Russian families have the same tendencies pointed out in the article and I know my Nigerian friends have discussed that this is how their families are too, including the “you are shaming us by getting anything less than the best grade/score/award” clause.
Is there a key element that I’m missing about this parenting style that makes it distinctly Asian or is the media really villainizing a specific group for something that is common in a variety of racial/ethnic groupings?
Racial visibility is probably a big reason. Tiger parents who are white are likely to be seen as exceptions among large numbers of non tiger white parents. But if someone sees only a few Asian people who happen to be tiger parents, that anecdote can become a stereotype.
“So why do they pick on Asians specifically when this is a very common practice in white families too?”
Because the Asian kids are super-achievers which is proven by simple statistics - they are over-represented at every super-selective academic place that affords selecting students based strictly on their achievements and not on the other factors, like color of their skin, shape of their eyes, the connected parents, and so forth. In this country, to be a super-achiever is a great reason to be hated by all media. I stopped paying attention to all this politically correct, licking you know what garbage. I do not care about this “media”. I am first hand familiar with the super hard working Asian kids and I bow to them, their families and their hard working ethic. I want more of these type of immigrants in our country, they make a huge positive difference here, despite of all garbage produced by “media” and despite of great obstacles that every one of them is facing here.
I think it is fear of competition. They articles rarely give context to the tiger Mom behavior. Imagine if you grew up in a society with no social safety net where educational advancement was largely merit and test based. You would motivate your child anyway you could to be prepared for that world. The tiger moms are actually showing love for their kids, not abusing them. Of course, there are some who go overboard and that is what the media tends to highlight. We just call those kids over-scheduled.
White parents do the same thing when they push their kids into sports and other activities so I really don’t see what the difference is.
There does seem to be an emphasis among first generation Asian parents on the most prestigious colleges being the only ones worth attending because they are the ones people back in their home countries have heard of. I don’t see that same emphasis routinely occurring for international students from other parts of the world.
If you take the racial lenses off, you may see that this level of achievement is more strongly associated with kids of highly educated immigrant parents. For such immigrants who are white or black, they do not define a racial stereotype, due to the presence of many other white or black people. But such immigrants form a high portion of Asian people in the US, so the stereotype tends to stick racially.
There is nothing wrong with being “over-scheduled” if a kid wants to be at 10 different places at once. They acquire invaluable time management skills, broaden their horizon, learn to be able to connect to people with very different personalities and set of skills. That is what my D. (non-Asian) told me when she started her HS. She said that she feels more advanced in social skills than many others because she kept herself super-busy with completely nu-related activities and had numerous friends who did not even know each other. It is funny that her Asian friends in medical school class gave her a title of “Honorary Chinese” because according to them she was a good student and played an instrument. They still call her that after they graduated. Her medical school class was predominantly Asian, D. was a minority there. All of her closer friends there were Asian.
OP, because it’s the media and they like topics that get a rise. Then readers get mildly hysterical.
And because a certain Mom made oodles of money on a book on the theme which she portrayed to an extreme that turned so many off.
I think that a lot of the coverage was associated with Amy Chua’s book on tiger parenting. In my opinion, this book shocked many people who otherwise admire hard work and high standards. Being in Athens and not going to see the Parthenon, so that the daughters can continue to practice the piano without one day’s interruption? Well, perhaps the influence of Greek culture on Western society means little to the family. But I could not imagine doing anything analogous if my family was visiting China. The Parthenon is a treasure of humanity that goes beyond culture. Making a child so stressed or angry that the child leaves bite marks on the piano? That is just wrong. Having the grandparents beg to spend more time with the children? That’s just awful. “The Little White Donkey” over and over and over, without food or a bathroom break, until the child finally “gets” syncopation? I would rather my child never “got” syncopation, if that is the cost. Threatening to burn stuffed animals? This seems cruel to me.
Prior to Chua’s book, I don’t think most Americans would have imagined the extremes to which she went to promote her daughters’ academic and musical studies.
For once, I agree with lookingforward. I don’t think my reaction to some of the elements of Chua’s book counts as “mildly hysterical,” but I did find the coverage of this book deeply disturbing. It is interesting to me that Amy Chua apparently did not anticipate the virulence of some of the reaction to her book.
No sleep-overs: I can accept that there are variations in cultural practice. The child does miss out on some elements of friendship in the US, and I think that Chua had a very unrealistic view of what happens at most sleep-overs. (She seemed to be confusing them with Woodstock–ok, exaggeration, but probably less than Chua’s exaggeration about sleep-overs.)
No performing in amateur theatrics: This one is a combination of variations in cultural practice, plus the enormous time demands of plays, musicals, and other types of performances. Those parts are fine with me. The opposition to having the child cast as “Villager Number 4” is misplaced, in my opinion. In real life, most people spend part of their time functioning as “Villager Number 4” rather than as the star of the show, but someone who is willing to serve as “Villager Number 4” is often needed, actually.
Choice of instrument: Piano or violin. Chua was kidding about this one, right?
Basically, the press has taken note of the success of Asian parents/students as a group. They then identified extreme examples of negative behaviors associated with the group. Those extreme examples have been used to caricature/stereotype and discount the many positive aspects of valuing education.
It fits the narrative that typical white families/students study “the right amount.” Any group doing less is “lazy” and any group doing more are crazy “tiger parents.”
This reassures the average white parent that they are doing a great job and don’t need to change anything. They just keep telling themselves that families that value education may look like their kid is doing well, but really they are ruining their kids lives.
I don’t think it was the press that identified the extreme examples, Much2learn. I think that it was Amy Chua who provided extreme examples. Then the press seized on her book, and looked for other extreme examples–which were not impossible to find. I will not hypothesize about Chua’s motives, but I think that her book was not helpful.
My DH’s good buddy since high school immigrated to the US from vietnam when he was 4. The dad was well-educated, but worked as a grave digger in the US upon arriving.
All 4 of the kids in this family are now MDs; they all married into long-time american non-asian families and they all have young kids now too. I’m very curious to see what path the grandkids all take. It does seem that New americans/asians are often more “tiger families” than families who’ve been here a long time.
In HI, there are many folks from Asia, that have come over at various times. The ones who were born in Asia (or their parents born in Asia) tend to be more “driven” according to our kids (who have relatives several generations living in HI) because they are more conscious of the huge sacrifices their families have made to get to the US and the rather bleak options that were left behind. I don’t feel there is as much “stigma” about tiger parenting in HI as some of these articles, but perhaps I am not in those circles. It is clear that kids are heavily scheduled and busy, but most seem to do OK with it.
I’m guessing there are lots of parents on this board, and some probably on this thread, who ended up with extremely successful kids (as our mainstream culture measures success) without really forcing any kind of studies or insisting on music or sports practice. I wouldn’t advocate that parenting style over another but it does really work for many families. In most cases, I think modelling is a lot more effective than any other parenting style.
It always bothers me when parents write about their kids, when the kids have no say in the story. I am not sure if that was the case with Amy Chau, but the fact the story was even told bothers me a lot.
ETA: My parents forbade sleepovers, during the Woodstock years, because our sleepovers kind of had turned into mini-Woodstocks.
ETA II: I’m not really impressed with this argument kids were well parented if they turn out a certain way. Sometimes they don’t turn out a certain way regardless of how they are parented. And I think each stage of life should be worthwhile (and enjoyable!!!) in and of itself, not just as a stepping stone to something (presumably) better in the future.
It is interesting to me that Chua has strong supporters in the media. When she was interviewed on the Diane Rehm show, I thought that Diane was trying very hard to portray Chua in a positive light, and that she did not ask the kind of pointed questions that she often asks of other guests.
I am glad that Chua’s daughters came through fine. Most people are resilient. Many people have lived through much more terrible circumstances as children, and survived.
However, I do not like the lines at the end of the Today piece:
“I don’t think what we should take from tiger parenting that every kid needs to become a violin prodigy or get into Harvard,” she said. “But when it comes to smaller issues like, ‘You won’t get every toy you want until your grades improve,’ or ‘You can’t quit the team because you lost two games in a row,’ then I believe tiger parenting does have its place.”
The reason I do not like these lines is that I think they represent an attempt to replace the bad practices in the Chua household (replace them in the public mind, that is) with practices that are perfectly normal. You can’t have every toy you want until your grades improve? This is a strange comment, which comes from someone in a very wealthy family. In most families, you can’t have every toy you want, regardless. In fact, you can’t have most toys you want. Probably not 10% of the toys you want. Maybe not 1%. The financial resources aren’t there.
Or “You can’t quit the team because you lost two games in a row?” How many families have children who are ready to quit a team after losing two games in a row? You don’t walk out on your team! What does it mean to be a member of a team? And wasn’t that discussed in any way with the child before the child signed up?
If a child wants to practice the violin for 6 hours a day, that is wonderful. But if the child is forced to practice that long? Luckily a piano is sturdier than a violin. I imagine that bite marks could damage a violin.
The Today piece seems to have been issued in connection with Chua’s second book. I like Penguin press. On the positive side, if this makes a lot of money for them, then they can probably continue to publish books I like.
Behaviors commonly associated with “tiger parenting” have existed in various forms among some across many ethnic groups including White protestants for a long time. Older HS alums who were of various non-Asian races/ethnicities recounted having similar parents back when they attended HS as far back as the 1930s.
Some may not always be targeting the same things such as Ivy/elite colleges…but the mentality is the same.
For instance, how about American(mostly non-Asian) sport parents who push their kids to making it into the NFL or the NBA from childhood onward? Some middle school classmates had such types of sport parents even though it was arguably even more of a longshot.
Also, one elementary school classmate had a father who was a Vietnam veteran 20+ year career Marine who did stints as a drill instructor at Parris Island who raised and prepped* his son with the goal of attending one of the FSAs. Preferably Annapolis with the hopes of him being a commissioned officer in the Marines.
Father was very open about his anger and disappointment when his son failed to gain admission to a single FSA or that his son decided to join the Army as an ROTC cadet rather than a Marine Option NROTC cadet. Didn’t matter that the son received an AROTC scholarship to a local private college which covered practically all educational expenses for 4-years. Wasn’t good enough for his father.
This included subjecting him to exceedingly strict discipline such as mandating his room be organized in an orderly manner similar to the exceedingly strict SAMI room inspection one relative experienced at an FSA or if he misbehaved, treat him like a recalcitrant marine recruit by using long runs, pushups, and other "PT him to death" type exercises one would expect at boot camp.
Keep in mind the son was held to such expectations even as a third grader in elementary school and the harsh strictness was such even my father and fellow military veterans…including Marines in the neighborhood tried to get him to ease up on his son.
@Cobrat this is definitely true. Think of Dance Moms, the top tier of competitors in activities such as Cheer, Ballet or Gymnastics and literally any top tier youth athlete.
My friend is a top-ranked tennis player and his parents have pushed him to 6 or 7 hour practices EVERY SINGLE DAY to achieve that. His parents withdrew him from a traditional school and he has no time to develop anything other than his tennis game. While the goals are different, the methods are quite similar.
One of my friends little brother plays in an elite football team for fourth graders and these fully grown, adult males grab these kids by the face mask and scream at them consistently when they make a mistake or show apathy towards a sport that some of them clearly would rather not play. Additionally, his parents pay an enormous fee for him to do this activity and travel with his team. So there is pressure on that end for him to do well. They are by no means poor but the sport has become enormously expensive to the point that her parents are putting more resources into his sport in the hopes that he will go pro than they are into her pursuit of a college education. Not counting the costs and risks that come with having a bunch of ten year olds playing a full contact sport.